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Re: [navigation] does <dt> label a <dd> that follows it?

From: Al Gilman <Alfred.S.Gilman@IEEE.org>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 11:04:20 -0400
Message-Id: <p06110405c2775c64d3cf@[192.168.1.100]>
To: wai-xtech@w3.org

At 7:26 PM -0400 17 05 2007, Gregory J. Rosmaita wrote:
>since i'm not an advocate of promiscuously using the DIV element to
>substitute for missing or malformed markup, i believe the answer
>may lie in a proposal to the HTML WG
[...]
>
>which would make the grouping explicit, rather than implicit;

* options

Yes, one could alter the markup to make the grouping explicit.
On the other hand, is the trip worth it?  What I was contemplating
was making the implicit grouping official, in two steps:

Step one:
Make the implicit nesting the basis of the suggested behavior for
context orientation in AT.  Possibly facilitated by features in the
accessibility API binding.

Step two:
Add a discussion of the implicit grouping to the HTML specification
in the 'classical HTML' line of development that is being undertaken
by the new HTML Working Group.

* discussion

Striving to make all grouping explicit in the syntactic nesting
is something that has been tried by both ISO HTML and by
XHTML 2.0.  Neither one has won wide popular support.

It remains an option open to the HTML WG.  There is at least one
faction in HTML WG that would rather clarify the semantics of the
markup we have than change the markup to make a fine point.

Changing the markup is a more long-term option
than to get AT to process on the basis of quote heruistics unquote
that correspond to semantic relationships that correspond to
predominant patterns in actual usage.

Al

>al asked, quote:
>>  Can we (should we) get the software doing the binding to
>>  accessibility APIs to treat
>>
>>  <dl>
>>  <dt>term1</dt>
>>  <dd>remark 1.1</dd>
>>  <dd>remark 1.2</dd>
>>  ...
>>  </dl>
>>
>>  as if it were marked
>>
>>  <dl>
>>  <dt id='list3term1randxyz'>term1</dt>
>>  <div role='aaa:group' aaa:labelledby='#list3term1randxyz'>
>>  <dd>remark 1.1</dd>
>>  <dd>remark 1.2</dd>
>>  </div>
>>  ....
>>  </dl>
>unquote
>
>since i'm not an advocate of promiscuously using the DIV element to
>substitute for missing or malformed markup, i believe the answer
>may lie in a proposal to the HTML WG
>
>by definition, DT is the definition term, which is then refined by
>descendent DD entries, so perhaps the easiest and most practical way to
>approach slash reform DL is to use the DT element as a container, much as
>the LI element acts as a container for nested lists; DT, however, would
>act as a grouping mechanism that provides a clear label for the DD
>elements which follow it slash descend from it;
>
>
><dl>
><dt id="t1" aaa="role:group">term1
><dd>remark 1.1</dd>
><dd>remard 1.2</dd>
></dt>
>
><dt id="t2" role="aaa:group">term 2
><dd>remark 2.1</dd>
><dd>remark 2.2</dd>
></dt>
>
></dl>
>
>which would make the grouping explicit, rather than implicit;
>
>>  Should we really be asking authors to repeat the text, here, or should
>>  we expect client software to treat the <dt> contents as an inheritable
>>  context label?
>
>i may be the only person to lament the loss of the proposed list label
>element, but perhaps the idea could be revived and refined as follows
>(Note: LL equals List Label, a containing element):
>
><!-- begin example 1 -->
>
><style type="text/css">
>em.bt { font-style: italic; font-weight: bold; }
></style>
>
><!-- .... -->
>
><ul>
><ll id="WtP" role="aaa:group"><em class="bt">Winnie the Pooh</em>
>
><li><a href="winnie_the_pooh.html"><em class="bt">Winnie the Pooh</em>
>(<acronym title="HyperText Markup Language">HTML</acronym> format</a></li>
>
><li><a href="winnie_the_pooh.pdf"><em>Winnie the Pooh</em> (<acronym
>title="Portable Document Format (Adobe)">PDF</acronym> format)</a></li>
>
></ll>
>
><ll id="WaP" role="aaa:group"><em class="bt">War and Peace</em>
>
><li><a href="war_and_peace.html"><em class="bt">War and Peace</em>
>(<acronym title="HyperText Markup Language">HTML</acronym></a></li>
>
><li><a href="war_and_peace.pdf"><em class="bt">War and Peace</em>
>(<acronym title="Portable Document Format (Adobe)">PDF</acronym></a></li>
></ll>
>
></ul>
><!-- end example 1 -->
>
>the advantage of LL (as well as DT) is that it could use the for slash id
>binding mechanism to reuse the contents of the LL; likewise, using a
>for/id binding for DT, and using it as a container, could facillitate the
>reuse of the string of text marked either by LL or DT
>
><!-- begin example 2 -->
><style type="text/css">
>em.bt { font-style: italic; font-weight: bold; }
></style>
>
><!-- .... -->
>
><dl>
><dt id="WtP" role="aaa:group"><em class="bt">Winnie the Pooh</em>
>
><dd><a href="winnie_the_pooh.html"><em class="bt">Winnie the Pooh</em>
>(<acronym title="HyperText Markup Language">HTML</acronym> format)/a></dd>
>
><dd><a href="winnie_the_pooh.pdf"><em>Winnie the Pooh</em> (<acronym
>title="Portable Document Format (Adobe)">PDF</acronym> format)</a></dd>
></dt>
>
><dt id="WaP" role="aaa:group"><em class="bt">War and Peace</em>
>
><dd><a href="war_and_peace.html"><em class="bt">War and Peace</em>
>(<acronym title="HyperText Markup Language">HTML</acronym></a></dd>
>
><dd><a href="war_and_peace.pdf"><em class="bt">War and Peace</em>
>(<acronym title="Portable Document Format (Adobe)">PDF</acronym></a></dd>
></dt>
>
></dl>
><!-- end example 2 -->
>
>gregory.
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>RATIONAL, adj.  Devoid of all delusions save those of observation,
>experience and reflection.    -- A. Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>Gregory J. Rosmaita: oedipus@hicom.net AND unagi69@concentric.net
>     Camera Obscura: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/index.html
>       Oedipus' Online Complex: http://my.opera.com/oedipus/
>------------------------------------------------------------------
Received on Monday, 21 May 2007 15:04:34 GMT

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