RE: Need some help (Alt text and descriptions)

> We also have different uses of graphics.
> 
> 1)  A DECORATION - a decorative picture, a logo, something with no particular information value but which someone may want to know the description of.

As I think Al said, I think the presence of a logo has some
information value to it and this is different for a "rainbow line"
used as an <HR> or some layout spacing hack which are really
decorative.


I concur - but it depends on usage.  Here I was talking about sites that put their logo on every page at the bottom or top.    Info on it should be available (see separate note about not hiding graphics) but it should be kept as short as possible.     Even a  horizontal rule has information / purpose and if a page uses different horizontal rules to convey different information it should be treated differently that a fancy <HR>  that is just an <HR>. 



> 2)  A LABEL/TITLE - a picture which does nothing (not a link) but serves as an identifier, a label, a title or some other information that is important to understanding the organization or purpose of the page or section of the page

Maybe logos fit better here in fact.

Usually I would think they would

> 3)  GRAPHIC PRESENTATION OF INFORMATION - this is information which is presented in graphic form.  Much more than a title, it would require multiple sentences to convey the information that is presented in this image.  And the information is not casual information (e.g. a logo which tries to depict something). But information which is central to understanding the information presented on the page.  Perhaps a chart or diagram.
> 4)  An ANCHOR - a graphic that is serving in place of anchor text for a link.  These anchors graphics sometimes ALSO serve functions 1, 2 , or 3 in addition to being an anchor.
> 

I don't agree that an anchor is in the same category as the
others. Anchors exist in their own context and information about the
anchor target for instance should be conveyed withing the <A> itself
rather than in the graphics context (e.g. using TITLE, or REL)

I concur.  This was just a first pass at categorizing info.   Note that  Anchors also can serve as 1,2 or 3.  So they clearly are another dimension rather than a forth type.


> For #1 most users just want to know what it is.  Something very
> short to describe it.  For example "IBM logo".  Or "Nova Logo".
> Someone may want to know what it looks like but most users don't
> want to waste viewing space (or download time?) with the
> description.

For the subset of #1 that are really decorative, using ALT="" should
be a possibility.

As has been seen, this is an interesting topic with different answers.  Many feel that decorations should be able to be obliterated.  Others feel that their presence should be always noted.   On graphic browsers is there any difference between Alt="" and having no ALT at all??????


> 1) all images should have an ALT tag (perhaps we should change the name to FUNCTION tag) that would tell you the FUNCTION of the graphic.  (e.g.  "IBM Logo",  "Section Title: Banana Products",  "Graph of population vs age",  "Divider Line", "bullet" (though some say a bullet should just have an * for the alt text), "More Information", "Search Button", 
> 
> 2) if an image is an anchor then the BROWSER should underline the ALT TEXT and color it just like it does any text anchor.
> 
> 3) All images should have a PARALLEL FILE that is located next to the graphic file and has the same name as the graphic file except that the ending is .txt  or .dsc  .  (Alternately a DESC= tag could be used to indicate that there was a description file. The file could then have any name or location.   This would also allow the browser to provide some indication as part of the alt text that there was a description available for this graphic.  Perhaps a distinctive character could be added to the end of the alt text like a plus. )
> 
> 4) all BROWSERS would have a command that could be issued while on a graphic to cause the text description file (see #3 just above) to be fetched and put into the document in the location of the Graphic (with square brackets around it).  (it would have to be something that was easily accomplished with a screen reader.)  Perhaps an "Alt Click" or "Control Click" on the alt text.   (If there was not description then the browser would beep.)

I think these are good statements. 1 and 3 are markup guidelines,
while 2 and 4 are browser guidelines, so let's try to remember them as
such.


Exactly.   

We should also remember that putting the descriptive text inside the graphic (as pointed out by chisholm and others) is another way to achieve the function in #3 and should be a subset or included in the discussion of #3.


We also need to write the parallel set of guidelines for Audio information.   (let me try something on you all in a separate message. 

Received on Saturday, 12 July 1997 13:31:20 UTC