W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-ua@w3.org > October to December 2014

Minutes: 11 Dec 2014

From: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 13:31:41 -0600
Message-ID: <CA+=z1WnVp-EVVN0j2eofuKB1tcBZau5-Uq47ygR3YxwuJkeHPQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: WAI-ua <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
from http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-ua-minutes.html
User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 11 Dec 2014

Agenda <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014OctDec/0069.html>
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014OctDec/0069.html

See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-ua-irc>
http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-ua-irc
Attendees
 Present Kim_Patch, Eric, Jeanne, [IPcaller], Jim_Allan Regrets Chair Jim
Allan Scribe allanj
Contents

   - Topics <http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-ua-minutes.html#agenda>
      1. Kelly's resignation
      <http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-ua-minutes.html#item01>
      2. MS01 - web-based UA Action-1057 -Jan
      <http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-ua-minutes.html#item02>
      3. MS03 - 1.4.1 text format separation OS/AT Action-1059 - Jim
      <http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-ua-minutes.html#item03>
      4. 4.1 sanity check
      <http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-ua-minutes.html#item04>
      5. SB03 - 1.8.11 Allow Top-Level Viewport Focus Control
      <http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-ua-minutes.html#item05>
      6. ms01 web-based UA
      <http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-ua-minutes.html#item06>
      7. MS03 1.4.1 text formatting
      <http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-ua-minutes.html#item07>
    - Summary of Action Items
   <http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-ua-minutes.html#ActionSummary>

------------------------------

 <trackbot> Date: 11 December 2014
Kelly's resignation

<jeanne> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014OctDec/0072.html

<scribe> scribe: allanj

open item 2

<Kim> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/User_Agent_Capabilities

<Kim> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Platform_Capabilities

<Kim>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Note:_WCAG_2.0_and_Mobile

kp: Platform Capabilities feeds into the Note. Platform is background
... trying to get everyone on the same page about mobile
... need help filling out UA capabiliites
... what are topic needed?

ja: APIs (accessibility, keyboard, etc.)
... user setting separate from platform settings

kp: speech input...where does it live. On the platform, or separate
application
... gap in command and control (CNC) on the platform.
... if CNC was in UA would be better, if speech followed keyboard.

ja: plugins for extra capabilities for the UA

kp: how does wcag, uaag, and mobile all come together

jr: no real platform accessibility requirements (touch system)

eh: what is the overlap between UAAG and WCAG

jr: good topic. all about end user experience.

ja: you test WCAG in the browser

eh: UAAG has stuff for repair,

jr: more limited now.

js: user style sheet in the platform and UA

eh: browser as platform

jr: user css is in the UA not the platform

close item 2
MS01 - web-based UA Action-1057 -Jan

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014OctDec/0068.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014OctDec/0073.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014OctDec/0074.html

eh: simple def. in glossary, with lots of extra information about specific
cases in some other part of doc (perhaps conformance)
... a lot of the info is useful but non-normative.

jr: important to keep "Note: Many web applications retrieve, render and
facilitate interaction with very limited data sets (e.g. online ticket
booking). In such cases, WCAG 2.0, without UAAG 2.0, may be appropriate for
assessing the application's accessibility."
... UA should apply to browsers only. Need the NOTE to limit the scope of
the definition.
... perhaps a link in the def to the expanded information

<jeanne> That reminds me, we also need to move the Conformance note that
says that if the platform doesn't allow it, it doesn't apply. That needs to
be in the Applicability Notes so it is easier to find.

eh: perhaps in the applicability notes.
... if it is essential then put in conformance section. otherwise elsewhere.

proposal: use Native to replace non-web-based browser.

<Jan> *ACTION:* JR to Propose a shift of much of the explanatory material
from user agent defn to a note in the conformance area [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1060 - Propose a shift of much of the explanatory
material from user agent defn to a note in the conformance area [on Jan
Richards - due 2014-12-18].

*RESOLUTION: use Native to replace non-web-based browser.*

close action-1057

<trackbot> Closed action-1057.
MS03 - 1.4.1 text format separation OS/AT Action-1059 - Jim 4.1 sanity check

jr: 4.1.2 selection and focus are state.
... if the UA supports an accessibility API (4.1.1) then the references are
the PF document.

<jeanne> *ACTION:* jeanne to update UAAG to change the term "non-web-based"
to "native" [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1061 - Update uaag to change the term
"non-web-based" to "native" [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-12-18].

ja: 4.1.2 is the UA version of a WCAG SC 4.1.2

jr: does UAAG need stay heavy on the API stuff (a strength of PF), or focus
on user interface
... keep 4.1.1, 4.1.4 and remove the others.
... the others in 4.1 will be difficult to test.

<Jan> http://www.w3.org/TR/core-aam-1.1/

jr: want to finish, keep it simple.
... need to wait for GL input

<Jan> http://www.w3.org/TR/ATAG20/#gl_a12

<Jan> A.1.2.2 Platform Accessibility Services:

<Jan> If the authoring tool contains non-web-based user interfaces, then
those non-web-based user interfaces expose accessibility information
through platform accessibility services. (Level A)

<Jan> Note: The (optional) explanation of conformance claim results should
record the platform accessibility service(s) that were implemented.

<scribe> *ACTION:* jeanne to move the Conformance note that says that if
the platform doesn't allow it, it doesn't apply. That needs to be in the
Applicability Notes so it is easier to find. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1062 - move the conformance note that says that
if the platform doesn't allow it, it doesn't apply. that needs to be in the
applicability notes so it is easier to find. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due
2014-12-18].

eh: Applicability Notes and relationship to Conformance. some statement
needed
... what do we want to call attention to
SB03 - 1.8.11 Allow Top-Level Viewport Focus Control

comment: Regarding SB03 (1.8.11 Allow Top-Level Viewport Open on Request),
I believe the problem I mentioned is caused by scripts intercepting the
"mousedown" or "mouseup" event (rather than the "click" event), and
therefore intercepting middle-clicks and (unintentionally?) causing these
to perform some action on the page instead of opening the link in a new
window. One solution might be to...
... allow the user to specify which mouse buttons are allowed to generate
Javascript events. For example, if the user says "do not allow any mouse
buttons to generate Javascript events" then no click or mousedown / mouseup
events are generated and clicks always perform the default browser
behaviour; if the user says "allow only the left mouse button to generate
Javascript events" then the...
... other buttons will not; if the user says "allow left and right but not
middle" then pages can override context menus but cannot override whatever
the middle button is bound to (e.g. "open in new tab"). I'm not sure how
exactly these options should be described to the user, or where to put them
(probably in an "advanced" section somewhere), but being able to tell the
browser not to...
... generate JS events when I middle-click would stop a lot of annoying
sites from overriding this "open link in new tab" shortcut. (Yes, there
will be times when the site is so script-driven that "open in new tab"
can't work anyway, but in these cases the user would find out soon enough;
I find in most cases "open in new tab" certainly CAN work - and DOES work
when you bring up the context...
... menu and select it from that - but the site simply prevents
middle-click from doing that job.)

<jeanne> Conformance 8.Platform Limitations: If the platform (hardware or
operating system) does not support a capability necessary for a given UAAG
2.0 success criterion, list the success criterion and the feature (e.g. a
mobile operating system does not support platform accessibility services,
therefore the user agent cannot meet success criterion 4.1.2). For these
listed features, the user agent can

<jeanne> claim that the success criteria do not apply (see 9.b.1
following). This should move to Applicability Notes

http://jspellman.github.io/UAAG-LC-Comment/

<Eric_Hansen> Sorry need to drop off now.

ja: doesn't seem to apply.

js: too device specific...middle mouse button.

*RESOLUTION: Not Accepted - UAWG is unconcerned with how the new window
opens, this SC is only concerned about IF the new window captures focus.*

<jeanne> *ACTION:* jeanne to update the comment for SB03 to say that
middle-button-click is too technology specific and see resolution for the
rest of the comment response. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-ua-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1063 - Update the comment for sb03 to say that
middle-button-click is too technology specific and see resolution for the
rest of the comment response. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-12-18].
ms01 web-based UA

jr: craft definition for epub, media player, etc. eliminate mobile apps, etc
MS03 1.4.1 text formatting

comment: MS03: Separation between browsers and OS We still believe that
1.4.1 should be separated into a level A criterion to pick up the OS
settings where they exist, and level AA or level AAA criterion to go beyond
the settings available on the platform.

ja: the UAs already do 1.4.1

for reference: 1.4.1 Basic text formatting (Globally): The user can
globally set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered text
content: (Level A)

* Text scale with preserved size distinctions (e.g. keeping headings
proportional to main font)

* Text color and background color, choosing from all platform color options

* Font family, choosing from all installed fonts

* Line spacing, choosing from a range with at least three values

jr: we say this is what the UA should do for text. MS says Level A should
be OS level stuff.
... UAs don't always respect OS text settings

ja: after thinking, not sure any UA meets the comment requirements

jr: we are concerned about getting implementations.
... in the intent, make it clear the inheriting OS setting could help meet
1.4.1

close item 5

close item 7
 Summary of Action Items *[NEW]* *ACTION:* jeanne to move the Conformance
note that says that if the platform doesn't allow it, it doesn't apply.
That needs to be in the Applicability Notes so it is easier to find.
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-ua-minutes.html#action03]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jeanne to update the comment for SB03 to say that
middle-button-click is too technology specific and see resolution for the
rest of the comment response. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-ua-minutes.html#action04]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jeanne to update UAAG to change the term "non-web-based"
to "native" [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-ua-minutes.html#action02]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* JR to Propose a shift of much of the explanatory material
from user agent defn to a note in the conformance area [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-ua-minutes.html#action01]

[End of minutes]

-- 
[image: http://www.tsbvi.edu] <http://www.tsbvi.edu>Jim Allan,
Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
Received on Thursday, 11 December 2014 19:32:07 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Wednesday, 7 January 2015 14:49:46 UTC