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minutes: User Agent WG 13 Nov. 2014

From: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:41:46 -0600
Message-ID: <CA+=z1WkwdtkwcoFBLYXCw9cwYnDnae2zWZ2rjMtFDWptAYKoRQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: WAI-ua <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
from: http://www.w3.org/2014/11/13-ua-minutes.html

[image: W3C] <http://www.w3.org/>
- DRAFT - User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 13
Nov 2014

See also: IRC log  http://www.w3.org/2014/11/13-ua-irc
<http://www.w3.org/2014/11/13-ua-irc>
Attendees
PresentJeanne, Greg_Lowney, Jim_Allan, Jan, Kim_Patch,
EricRegretsChairJimAllan,
KellyFordScribeallanj
Contents

   - Topics <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/13-ua-minutes.html#agenda>
      1. 2.6.1 access to event handlers, should be AAA or advisory
      <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/13-ua-minutes.html#item01>
      2. 2.7 need new SC at A, for respecting OS accessibility settings
      <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/13-ua-minutes.html#item02>
   - Summary of Action Items
   <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/13-ua-minutes.html#ActionSummary>

------------------------------

<trackbot> Date: 13 November 2014

<scribe> scribe: allanj

Comment Response Document: http://jspellman.github.io/UAAG-LC-Comment/
2.6.1 access to event handlers, should be AAA or advisory

gl: channeling TPAC discussion.
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014OctDec/0046.html#item28

jr: tried to write a test for this, could not figure it out. so if we
reword it, we must also write a test.

js: have to test every element that can take a handler, and all handlers.

ja: combinatorics explode!!!

gl: rewrite to specifically target scripted functionality for badly written
pages

ja: target what?

js: need to narrow it, to exactly what we want...and technology neutral.
onClick events, or rightClick. otherwise too many things to test.

jr: javascript handler on an element, every element they can select with a
keyboard, bring up a list of handlers and activate them from the keyboard

gl: perhaps remove handlers/events and focus on standard inputs ... click,
spacebar, enter,

jr: so bad page with bad code what is the test?

gl: div with hover, shows a popup. how to do that with a keyboard

jr: author doesnot write keyboard code, is the browser to repair, or just
show all handlers

gl: we had a SC that lets all enabled elements be operable from the
keyboard.

jr: so if tabindex=-1 then UA overrides

ja: will break web applications

jr: you can use AT to do this. what does browser do?

gl: for UA to all nav to all enabled elements, for div must analyze script
for events then add element to tab order

jr: not asking if it is possible, but does this rise to what we want UA to
do.

gl: it is a repair function. we have to decide if it is important.

jr: are we in business of overriding authors

gl: for colors, fonts, etc. ...yes,

jr: can see the value, do we have any way to test or any implementations we
can look at

from UAAG1

1.2 Activate event handlers (P1) Checkpoint 1.2

Allow the user to activate, through keyboard input alone, all input device
event handlers that are explicitly associated with the element designated
by the content focus.

In order to satisfy provision one of this checkpoint, the user must be able
to activate as a group all event handlers of the same input device event
type. For example, if there are 10 handlers associated with the onmousedown
event type, the user must be able to activate the entire group of 10
through keyboard input alone, and must not be required to activate each
handler separately.

inclusion & exclusions

1. Provision one of this checkpoint applies to handlers of any input device
event type, including event types for keyboard, pointing device, and voice
input.

2. The user agent is not required to allow activation of event handlers
associated with a given device (e.g., the pointing device) in any order
other than what the device itself allows (e.g., a mouse down event followed
by a mouse drag event followed by a mouse up event).

3. The requirements for this checkpoint refer to any explicitly associated
input device event handlers associated with an element, independent of the
input modalities for which the user agent conforms. For example, suppose
that an element has an explicitly associated handler for pointing device
events. Even when the user agent only conforms for keyboard input (and does
not conform for the...

scribe: pointing device, for example), this checkpoint requires the user
agent to allow the user to activate that handler with the keyboard.

<Jan> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/TS/html401/

js: Proposal: eliminate, because we have no implementations, or a way to
test.

ja: so JAWS has a feature of navigating to anything with a javascript
attached.

thoughts of proposal

jr: put it in purgatory, style to remove but not really removed.

ja: like jr idea of if no test or implementations in x weeks then eliminated

js: what about putting just in reference doc.

jr: can we attach it to some other SC as an example.
... gl...what are chances of test or implementations being found

gl: would need an extension.

jr: what do speech users do to activate hover events

kp: they can't, they don't know they are there. moving the mouse is very
difficult and tedious.
... if I need the event, I can create some macro. otherwise very tedious

jr: mobile area may help in this area.

kp: they have solved this, but not implemented in desktop

gl: are gestures (pinch, drag, etc) unique to each UA

kp: gesture is 3d, but some think it is 2d touch event

ja: need hover from keyboard

jr: html5 touch events, and are different from mouse events
... in IOS they have adaptive touch configuration

<Greg> Touch Events
https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webevents/raw-file/tip/touchevents.html

gl: could create a simple doc with div with hover and a few others.

jr: too many handlers and elements

gl: representative samples?

jr: yes, so what are the representative samples?

ja: onclick, ondblclick, onmousedown, onmouseover, onmouseout, onfocus,
onblur, onkeypress, onkeydown, and onkeyup.

gl: are there others standardized.

js: could move to AAA, but need implementation
... and test

ja: eliminate or AAA and make a test and find implementation

jr: Looking at UAAG1

http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/impl-pr2/evaluations/eval_win_ie6.html#tech-device-independent-handlers-2

<Jan>
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/implementation/eval_win_wineyes411.html#device-independent-handlers

jr: there is no implementation in UAAG1 but only with AT, the UA did nothing

<jeanne> +1 to eliminate

Proposal: Remove GL 2.6

<Jan> +1

<Kim> +1

<Eric> +1

<Greg> I remain unhappy about it but accede to the will of the group.

ja: +1

*RESOLUTION: Remove GL2.6*
2.7 need new SC at A, for respecting OS accessibility settings

comment: 2.7 needs a level A about picking up OS settings. The rest look ok
for level

jr: this is covered in 5.1.3

5.1.3 Implement Accessibility Features of the Platform: If the user agent
contains non-web-based user interfaces, then those user interfaces follow
user interface accessibility guidelines for the platform. (Level A)

Note: When a requirement of another specification contradicts a requirement
of UAAG 2.0, the user agent may disregard the rendering requirement of the
other specification and still satisfy this guideline.

js: reference 5.1.3 respect system/platform settings

<Jan> 5.1.3 Implement Accessibility Features of the Platform: If the user
agent contains non-web-based user interfaces, then those user interfaces
respect platform settings and follow user interface accessibility
guidelines for the platform. (Level A)

gl: example in 5.1.3 is needed for HighContrast Mode

<Jan> 5.1.3 Implement Accessibility Features of the Platform: If the user
agent contains non-web-based user interfaces, then those user interfaces
respect platform accessibility settings and follow user interface
accessibility guidelines for the platform. (Level A)

example for 5.1.3 Sasha requires high contrast to be able to discriminate
the shape of letters. She has set the accessibility preferences on her
computer to use high contrast mode. When she launches her browser, it
detects that she is using high contrast and adjusts the font and color
settings for its user interface to reflect those settings.

gl: how to test?

<Jan> Test 0001 Assertion: Any non-web-based portions of the authoring tool
user interface follow the accessibility guidelines for the platform.

<Jan> If the authoring tool is entirely web-based (i.e. lacking any
functionality that runs outside of a user agent), then select SKIP.

<Jan> If the non-web-based parts include editing views (as opposed to only
a file uploader, etc.), then load the accessible test content file (any
level).

<Jan> If the accessibility guideline (for the platform) that was used by
the developer is known, this should be used to test the accessibility of
the user interface. If the user interface has followed the guidelines, then
select PASS, otherwise select FAIL.

jr: review platform specs. provide things to test for,

<Jan> If the accessibility guideline (for the platform) that was used by
the developer is not known, choose the most relevant from this list of user
interface accessibility guidelines for various platforms and use it to test
the accessibility of the user interface. If you find instances where the
user interface has not followed the guidelines, then select FAIL, otherwise
select PASS.

<Jan> http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2013/ATAG2-10April2012PublicWD-Tests

<Jan> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20120410/#sc_a121

eh: what if other settings in the OS that conflict with the UA

gl: the user has chosen their settings...so the UA should respect.
... not so much the settings but the design conventions, user should be
able to override them

5.1.3 rewording

5.1.3 Implement Accessibility Features of the Platform: If the user agent
contains non-web-based user interfaces, then those user interfaces respect
platform accessibility settings and follow user interface accessibility
guidelines for the platform. (Level A)

example for 5.1.3 Sasha requires high contrast to be able to discriminate
the shape of letters. She has set the accessibility preferences on her
computer to use high contrast mode. When she launches her browser, it
detects that she is using high contrast and adjusts the font and color
settings for its user interface to reflect those settings.

<jeanne> *ACTION:* Jeanne to reword 5.1.3 as above. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/11/13-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1054 - Reword 5.1.3 as above. [on Jeanne F
Spellman - due 2014-11-20].

<jeanne> *ACTION:* jeanne to move example from 2.7.4 high contrast. Copy to
5.1.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/13-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1055 - Move example from 2.7.4 high contrast.
copy to 5.1.3 [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-11-20].

any issues with rewording 5.1.3?

none heard

*RESOLUTION: new wording for 5.1.3 Implement Accessibility Features of the
Platform: If the user agent contains non-web-based user interfaces, then
those user interfaces respect platform accessibility settings and follow
user interface accessibility guidelines for the platform. (Level A)*

any issues with adding cross reference to 5.1.3 in GL 2.7 to address MS06?

jr: where do we put the cross reference?

js: put on all level A of 2.7
... place 5.1.3 cross reference in the related resources section of all 2.7
SC

jr: this is just informative.

Proposal: remove note in 5.1.3 Note: When a requirement of another
specification contradicts a requirement of UAAG 2.0, the user agent may
disregard the rendering requirement of the other specification and still
satisfy this guideline.

objections?

no objections

*RESOLUTION: remove Note: in 5.1.3*
 Summary of Action Items *[NEW]* *ACTION:* jeanne to move example from
2.7.4 high contrast. Copy to 5.1.3 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/11/13-ua-minutes.html#action02]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* Jeanne to reword 5.1.3 as above. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/11/13-ua-minutes.html#action01]

[End of minutes]

-- 
[image: http://www.tsbvi.edu] <http://www.tsbvi.edu>Jim Allan,
Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
Received on Thursday, 13 November 2014 19:42:12 UTC

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