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Minutes of UAWG telecon of 10 April 2014

From: Jeanne Spellman <jeanne@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2014 14:34:36 -0400
Message-ID: <5346E43C.6010902@w3.org>
To: UAWG <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
HTML version of Minutes:
http://www.w3.org/2014/04/10-ua-minutes.html


    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

     User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

10 Apr 2014

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2014/04/10-ua-irc

Attendees

    Present
	   Jeanne, kford, Greg_Lowney, Kim_Patch, Kelly
    Regrets
           Jim, Eric

    Chair
           SV_MEETING_CHAIR

    Scribe
           Jan

Contents

      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]Meeting at TPAC?
          2. [5]Finish Jan's OP06 comments
          3. [6]EDIT (to match 1.9.1) 2.5.2 Provide Structural
             Navigation
          4. [7]REMOVE 2.5.3 Allow Elements to be Configured for
             Structural Navigation
          5. [8]REMOVE: GLOSSARY: important elements
      * [9]Summary of Action Items
      __________________________________________________________

    <trackbot> Date: 10 April 2014

    <kford> we left off at 2.3.3

    <kford> comments document:
    [10]http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2014/LCcomments.html

      [10] http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2014/LCcomments.html

    <kford> ---

    <kford> Main Comment Gateway -

    <kford>
    [11]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-uaag2-comments/

      [11] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-uaag2-comments/

Meeting at TPAC?

    <kford> TPAC is OCT 27-31 in Santa Clara.

    <jeanne> We could request Monday - Tuesday

    <kford> Group saying we would like to meet 10/27-28. Will
    explore funding.

Finish Jan's OP06 comments

    <Greg> [12]http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2014/LCcomments.html

      [12] http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2014/LCcomments.html

    [13]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JanMar/0
    046.html

      [13] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JanMar/0046.html

    <jeanne> Minutes from 13 March ->
    [14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014AprJun/0
    000.html

      [14] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014AprJun/0000.html

    <Greg> The latest draft wording on 13 March was:

    <Greg> Jan's update: 2.3.1 Allow Direct Navigation to Enabled
    Elements: The user can move keyboard focus directly to any
    enabled elements in the rendered content. (Level AA)

    EDIT 2.3.1 Allow Direct Navigation to Enabled Elements: The
    user can move keyboard focus directly to any enabled elements
    in the rendered content. (Level AA)

    EDIT 2.3.3 Allow Direct Activation of Enabled Elements: The
    user can perform an activation action on any enabled element in
    the rendered content. (Level A)

    GL: Element->Elements: 2.3.3 Allow Direct Activation of Enabled
    Elements: The user can perform an activation action on any
    enabled elements in the rendered content. (Level A)

    <Greg> Actually I felt "element" should be singular in the SC
    (not title), as a command can't move focus to multiple elements
    at one time.

    KP: But should move the focus as well

    2.3.1 Allow Direct Navigation to Enabled Elements: The user can
    move keyboard focus directly to any enabled element in the
    rendered content. (Level A)

    2.3.3 Allow Direct Activation of Enabled Elements: The user
    can, in a single action, move keyboard focus to any enabled
    element in the rendered content and perform an activation
    action on that element. (Level AA)

    2.3.3 Allow Direct Activation of Enabled Elements: The user
    can, in a single action, move keyboard focus directly to any
    enabled element in the rendered content and perform an
    activation action on that element. (Level AA)

    JR: Do people like wording (leaving aside level)?

    KP: Yes

    GL: Tiny bit of ambiguity, but good enough

    <kford> I lost all my connectivity about 10 minutes ago.

    <kford> are you still on the phone?

    JR: We should wait for the chair....

    <kford> Now when I dial in, thereis no answer

    Yes we are all on the phone

    <kford> I keep trying and have been for like 10 minutes

    Now we've lost Kelly from IRC

    Can I call you on Skype?

    I'm calling you on Skype...but the call failed

    Kelly, do you agree with the following wording:

    2.3.1 Allow Direct Navigation to Enabled Elements: The user can
    move keyboard focus directly to any enabled element in the
    rendered content.

    2.3.3 Allow Direct Activation of Enabled Elements: The user
    can, in a single action, move keyboard focus directly to any
    enabled element in the rendered content and perform an
    activation action on that element.

    KF: OK
    ... OK with new 2.3.1 and 2.3.3 wording

    <jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to update document with new 2.3.1 and
    2.3.3 wording above. [recorded in
    [15]http://www.w3.org/2014/04/10-ua-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-963 - Update document with new 2.3.1
    and 2.3.3 wording above. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due
    2014-04-17].

    KP: From speech point of view, nav+activation is more important
    ... It would be more rare to do nav alone

    JS: Classic example is screen reader user trying to nav a list
    but it activates items as you try to navigate the list
    ... I like AA for both

    JR: I could live with that

    KP: I can live with AA for both

    GL: I can live with AA...but making me think about lengthy doc
    navigation
    ... Could use structured nav?

    GL Maybe page-down

    JS: When deciding levels... we said A would be solved an
    absolute barrier, was easy to implement, helped many people

    KF: OK with Level AA

    Resolution: All agree on: 2.3.1 Allow Direct Navigation to
    Enabled Elements: The user can move keyboard focus directly to
    any enabled element in the rendered content. (Level AA)
    ... All agree on 2.3.3 Allow Direct Activation of Enabled
    Elements: The user can, in a single action, move keyboard focus
    directly to any enabled element in the rendered content and
    perform an activation action on that element. (Level AA)

    <kford> yes I'm fine with this

    Resolution: When re-numbering, put 2.3.1 followed immediately
    by the 2.3.3

    <jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to renumber in this order: 2.3.1,
    2.3.3, 2.3.2 [recorded in
    [16]http://www.w3.org/2014/04/10-ua-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-964 - Renumber in this order: 2.3.1,
    2.3.3, 2.3.2 [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-04-17].

EDIT (to match 1.9.1) 2.5.2 Provide Structural Navigation

    JR: Only change is more general handle and added "content
    sections"

    GL: Should we add recognized?

    2.5.2 Provide Structural Navigation: The user agent provides at
    least the following types of structural navigation, where the
    recognized structure types are present: (Level AA) - By heading
    - By content sections - Within tables

    2.5.2 Provide Structural Navigation: The user agent provides at
    least the following types of structural navigation, where the
    following structure types are recognized: (Level AA) - By
    heading - By content sections - Within tables

    2.5.2 Provide Structural Navigation: The user agent provides at
    least the following types of structural navigation, where the
    structure types are recognized: (Level AA) - By heading - By
    content sections - Within tables

    GL: Looks good

    JR: +1

    KP: Good

    <jeanne> +1

    JS: Good

    KF: Fine

    Resolution: All agree to: 2.5.2 Provide Structural Navigation:
    The user agent provides at least the following types of
    structural navigation, where the structure types are
    recognized: (Level AA) - By heading - By content sections -
    Within tables

    <jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to update 2.5.2 with new wording: 2.5.2
    Provide Structural Navigation: The user agent provides at least
    the following types of structural navigation, where the
    structure types are recognized: (Level AA) - By heading - By
    content sections - Within tables [recorded in
    [17]http://www.w3.org/2014/04/10-ua-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-965 - Update 2.5.2 with new wording:
    2.5.2 provide structural navigation: the user agent provides at
    least the following types of structural navigation, where the
    structure types are recognized: (level aa) - by heading - by
    content sections - within tables [on Jeanne F Spellman - due
    2014-04-17].

REMOVE 2.5.3 Allow Elements to be Configured for Structural
Navigation

    2.5.3 Allow Elements to be Configured for Structural
    Navigation: The user can configure a set of important elements
    (including element type) for structured navigation and
    hierarchical/outline view. (Level AAA)

    [18]http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2014/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-201404
    10/#sc_253

      [18] 
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2014/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20140410/#sc_253

    KF: I think lots of users would use this

    KP: I go to lots of web pages regularly
    ... People do same things over and over....and ineffecient

    2.5.3 Allow Elements to be Configured for Structural
    Navigation: The user can configure which elements are used for
    structural navigation and outline views. (Level AAA)

    1.9.1 Outline View: Users can view a navigable outline of
    rendered content composed of labels for important elements, and
    can move focus efficiently to these elements in the main
    viewport. (Level AA)

    - Note: The important elements depend on the web content
    technology, but may include headings, table captions, and
    content sections.

    That was current wording...

    1.9.1 Outline View: Users can view a navigable outline of the
    rendered content that allows focus to be moved to the
    corresponding element in the main viewport. (Level AA) - Note:
    The elements reflected in the outline view will depend on the
    web content technology and may include: headings, table
    captions, and content sections.

    <Greg> Note: It is recommended that the user agent allow users
    to customize which elements are included in the outline view.

    GL: Another approach would be to add a note to 1.9.1 saying it
    is recommended that users be able to customize which elements
    to include

    2.5.3 Allow Elements to be Configured for Structural
    Navigation: The user can configure which elements are used for
    structural navigation and outline views. (Level AAA)

    GL: 1.91. and 2.5.3 etc. should point to this

    2.5.3 Configurable Structural Navigation...

    <Greg> "Configuring Structural Navigation and Views"?

    <Greg> "Configure Structural Navigation and Outline View"?

    2.5.3 Configuring Structural Navigation and Views: The user can
    configure which elements are used for structural navigation and
    outline views. (Level AAA)

    JR: KP, JS...handle?

    2.5.3 Configure Elements for Structural Navigation and Views:
    The user can configure which elements are used for structural
    navigation and outline views. (Level AAA)

    2.5.3 Configure Navigation and Views: The user can configure
    which elements are used for structural navigation and outline
    views. (Level AAA)

    <Greg> My pref would be the shorter "2.5.3 Configure Structural
    Navigation and Views", but can live with it long.

    2.5.3 Configure Structural Navigation and Views: The user can
    configure which elements are used for structural navigation and
    outline views. (Level AAA)

    JR: +1

    KP: +1

    <jeanne> +1 to Greg's

    GL: +1

    <Greg> GL +1

    KF: +1

    Resolution: All agree with: 2.5.3 Configure Structural
    Navigation and Views: The user can configure which elements are
    used for structural navigation and outline views. (Level AAA)

    <jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to reword 2.5.3 Configure Structural
    Navigation and Views: [recorded in
    [19]http://www.w3.org/2014/04/10-ua-minutes.html#action04]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-966 - Reword 2.5.3 configure
    structural navigation and views: [on Jeanne F Spellman - due
    2014-04-17].

REMOVE: GLOSSARY: important elements

    JR: Agree to remove

    KP: +1

    GL: We will need to remove from summary of 1.9, 2.3

    Resolution: All agree to remove "GLOSSARY: important elements"
    and mention of import elements from summaries (1.9 and 2.3)

    <jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to remove definition of "important
    elements" and remove mention in the summaries of 1.9 and 2.3
    [recorded in
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2014/04/10-ua-minutes.html#action05]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-967 - Remove definition of "important
    elements" and remove mention in the summaries of 1.9 and 2.3
    [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-04-17].

    [21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014AprJun/0
    004.html

      [21] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014AprJun/0004.html

    <scribe> Scribe: Jan

    [22]http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2014/LCcomments.html

      [22] http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2014/LCcomments.html

    JS: All of that "Important elements" stuff was related to
    comment MSO9

    GL: Actually we ere on OP06
    ... An opera comment
    ... That was the last Opera comment

    JR: So what's next?

    JS: Maybe James Craig....AP01
    ... The working group agrees that many items in UAAG 2.0 are
    relatively easy to acheive with CSS and scripts bu the onus
    should be on user agents developers rather than users in the
    general public to implement these.

    <jeanne_> UAWG agrees that many items in UAAG2 are relatively
    easy to achieve with user style sheets and user scripts, but
    the onus for developing the style sheets and scripts should be
    on user agent developers rather than users.

    <Greg> I'm thinking that to claim compliance, the claimant
    needs to demonstrate compliance, which may be done with
    existing user style sheets and scripts. However, it is
    insufficient to claim that those could *in theory* be written,
    if none can be demonstrated.

    <jeanne_> UAWG agrees that many items in UAAG2 are relatively
    easy to achieve with user style sheets and user scripts, but
    the onus for developing the style sheets and scripts should be
    on user agent developers rather than users. To claim
    compliance, there must be a solution for the non-expert, not a
    sample of what could be done.

    <Greg> In order to claim compliance, the claimant must
    demonstrate that solutions, and any required additional
    components, are available to non-expert users. Enabling the
    creation of such solutions is not by itself sufficient.

    <jeanne_> UAWG agrees that many items in UAAG2 are relatively
    easy to achieve with user style sheets and user scripts, but
    the onus for developing the style sheets and scripts should be
    on user agent developers rather than users. To claim
    compliance, there must be a practical solution for the
    non-expert user, not just a sample of what could be done.

    <jeanne_> UAWG agrees that many items in UAAG2 are relatively
    easy to achieve with user style sheets and user scripts, but
    the onus for developing the style sheets and scripts should be
    on user agent developers rather than users. In order to claim
    compliance, the claimant must demonstrate that solutions, and
    any required additional components, are available to non-expert
    users. Enabling the creation of such solutions is not by itself
    sufficient.

    Resolution: UAWG agrees that many items in UAAG2 are relatively
    easy to achieve with user style sheets and user scripts, but
    the onus for developing the style sheets and scripts should be
    on user agent developers rather than users. In order to claim
    compliance, the claimant must demonstrate that solutions, and
    any required additional components, are available to non-expert
    users. Enabling...
    ... the creation of such solutions is not by itself sufficient.

    <jeanne> Next Week: Start with AP02

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: jeanne to remove definition of "important
    elements" and remove mention in the summaries of 1.9 and 2.3
    [recorded in
    [23]http://www.w3.org/2014/04/10-ua-minutes.html#action05]
    [NEW] ACTION: jeanne to renumber in this order: 2.3.1, 2.3.3,
    2.3.2 [recorded in
    [24]http://www.w3.org/2014/04/10-ua-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: jeanne to reword 2.5.3 Configure Structural
    Navigation and Views: [recorded in
    [25]http://www.w3.org/2014/04/10-ua-minutes.html#action04]
    [NEW] ACTION: jeanne to update 2.5.2 with new wording: 2.5.2
    Provide Structural Navigation: The user agent provides at least
    the following types of structural navigation, where the
    structure types are recognized: (Level AA) - By heading - By
    content sections - Within tables [recorded in
    [26]http://www.w3.org/2014/04/10-ua-minutes.html#action03]
    [NEW] ACTION: jeanne to update document with new 2.3.1 and
    2.3.3 wording above. [recorded in
    [27]http://www.w3.org/2014/04/10-ua-minutes.html#action01]

    [End of minutes]
      __________________________________________________________
Received on Thursday, 10 April 2014 18:34:38 UTC

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