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minutes: UAWG telecon 10 Oct 2013

From: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 14:19:59 -0500
Message-ID: <CA+=z1Wk20Rx0_u+3_bSqPNJW0vwQEEYKg_0zV_xVq_1v=nUxGA@mail.gmail.com>
To: WAI-ua <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
from http://www.w3.org/2013/10/10-ua-minutes.html

User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

10 Oct 2013

See also: IRC log  http://www.w3.org/2013/10/10-ua-irc

Attendees

PresentGreg_Lowney, Jeanne, Jim_Allan, Jan, Kim_PatchRegretsEric,
kellyChairjimAllan, KellyFordScribejallan, allanj

Contents

Topics

q8 1.4.4
q9 1.4.5
q10 1.4.6

Summary of Action Items

________________________________

<trackbot> Date: 10 October 2013

<allanj> scribe: jallan

<allanj> scribe: allanj

open item 2

Announce Kim and Kathy Wahlbin will be co-facilitator

if anyone want to participate in the taskforce let Jeanne know.

close item 2

open item 3

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013OctDec/0005.html

<jeanne> Note: The unit of measure will vary by the technology. For the
purposes

<jeanne> of UAAG 2.0, the font height should be considered to be equal to
1. The

<jeanne> font width of the character 0 (zero) (or other character commonly
accepted in

<jeanne> the typography for that language) should be considered to be equal
to 1.

<jeanne> Note: The unit of measure will vary by the technology. For the
purposes of UAAG 2.0, the font height should be considered to be equal to
1. The font width of the character 0 (zero) (or other character commonly
accepted in the typography for that language) should be considered to be
equal to 1.

References (for 1.4.3 in IER)

http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/visudet.html#leading

http://www.w3.org/wiki/CSS/Properties/line-height

http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/text.html#spacing-props

http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/fonts.html#font-styling

http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/fonts.html#font-boldness

http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/text.html#lining-striking-props

http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/text.html#alignment-prop

Table of all CSS properties http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/propidx.html

js: with the note, we do not need units

gl: unit will vary, but then we define units in an independent manner
... first sentence should be removed.

<jeanne> For the purposes of UAAG 2.0, the font height should be considered
to be equal to 1. The font width of the character 0 (zero) (or other
character commonly accepted in the typography for that language) should be
considered to be equal to 1.

jr: font-width of zero character become the basis for all other measurements

<Greg> How about "Line spacing of at least 1.0, 1.3, 1.5, and 2.0 times the
base character height"?

<jeanne> Note: For the purposes of UAAG 2.0, the font height should be
considered to be equal to 1. The font width of the character commonly
accepted as the base character for calculating kerning in the typography
for that language (e.g. zero character in English) should be considered to
be equal to 1.

<Greg> Then the note could change slightly to something like "Note: The
base character width is the font width of the character commonly
accepted..."

Line spacing of at least 1.0, 1.3, 1.5, and 2.0 times the base character
height

Character spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, 0.09 times the base
character width

Word spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, 0.09 times the base character
width

Text style (underline, italic, bold)

Justification - undo full justification

<jeanne> [N<]Text Spacing and Style (Globally):

<jeanne> The user can globally set all of the following characteristics of
visually rendered blocks of text:(Level AA)

<jeanne> Line spacing of at least 1.0, 1.3, 1.5, and 2.0 times the font
height

<jeanne> Character spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, 0.09 times the
base character width

<jeanne> Word spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, 0.09 times the base
character width

<jeanne> Text style (underline, italic, bold)

<jeanne> Justification - undo full justification [>N]

<jeanne> Note: For the purposes of UAAG 2.0, the font height should be
considered to be equal to 1. The font width of the character commonly
accepted as the base character for calculating kerning in the typography
for that language (e.g. zero character in English) should be considered to
be equal to 1.

<jeanne> Note: For the purposes of UAAG 2.0, the font width of the
character commonly accepted as the base character for calculating kerning
in the typography for that language (e.g. zero character in English) should
be considered to be equal to 1.

justification (left, right, full)

<Greg> "Note: The base character width is the font width of the character
commonly accepted..."

<Greg> Note: The base character width is the font width of the character
commonly accepted font width of the character commonly accepted as the base
character for calculating kerning in the typography for that language (e.g.
zero character in English).

<jeanne> Note: For the purposes of UAAG 2.0, the base character width is
the font width of the character commonly accepted as the base character for
calculating kerning in the typography for that language (e.g. zero
character in English).

js: UAAG doesn't care what you use as a unit, just that you use a
consistent unit

resolution: use the text above for crafting 1.4.3

close item 3

<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to add a sentence to the Intent that UAAG doesn't
care what you use as a unit, just that you provide the multiples of the
unit. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/10-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-904 - Add a sentence to the intent that uaag
doesn't care what you use as a unit, just that you provide the multiples of
the unit. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-17].

open item 4

close action-902

<trackbot> Closed action-902.

proposed definitions

viewport:

A mechanism for presenting only part of a visual or tactile view to the
user via a screen or tactile display. There may be multiple viewports on to
the same underlying view (e.g. when a split-screen is used to present the
top and bottom of a document simultaneously) and viewports may be nested
(e.g. a scrolling frame located within a larger document). When the
viewport is smaller than the...

scribe: view it is presenting, some of the view will not be presented.
Mechanisms are typically provided to move the view or the viewport such
that all of the view can be brought into the viewport (e.g. scrollbars).

Note: In UAAG 1.0 viewports were defined as having a temporal dimension. In
UAAG 2.0, this is not the case. Since audio content is inherently
time-based, audio viewports are excluded.

top-level viewport:

A viewport that is not contained within another viewport of a
*platform-based user agent*. Web-based user agents are always displayed
inside another viewport, and therefore are never top-level viewports. A
popular browser implementation is to provide a window that includes some
user agent user interface elements (e.g., menus) and a series of tabbed
panels, each of which contains additional...

scribe: user agent user interface elements (e.g., address bar, bookmarks,
back/forward buttons) and a top-level viewport for rendering a view of the
addressed web resource.

ja: +1 to new defs

<Jan> JR: +1

<Greg> GL: +1

ja: any objections

kp: +1

resolution: add the definitions above to the document

<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to update glossary of viewport and top-level
viewport with text above. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2013/10/10-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-905 - Update glossary of viewport and top-level
viewport with text above. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-17].

<scribe> ACTION: jeanne to review the use of 'container' in the document
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/10-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-906 - Review the use of 'container' in the
document [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-17].

jr: viewport is visual or tactile
... tactile is 2-d space
... perhaps we should use visual viewport

gl: leave a graphical, because some viewports may be both visual and tactile

resolution: search doc for 2 periods (..)

close item 4

q8 1.4.4

https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq10

proposal:

1.4.4 Printing: The user can print any rendered visual, non-time-based
content to their choice of available printer devices. (Level AA)

Applicability Note: The user must be able to print content as it is
rendered for their video output, reflecting user scaling, highlighting, and
other modifications, but reflowed for the print margins.

Intent: The ability to print content is important for users who have
difficulty reading or interacting with Web content directly in the user
agent due to software, hardware, or ergonomic issues. Printing to virtual
printer devices can also be a necessary step in converting the content to
another electronic format that the user finds more accessible. It is also
important that the user be able...
... to print content with modifications they have applied, such as scaling
or highlighting, or else they may find the printed version unusuable. At
the same time, they need to be able to have content reflowed to fit the
width of the page, or else content may be cut off.

User agents are strongly encouraged to let the user print a portion of the
document, such as a selection or specified range of pages, because
otherwise printing won’t be a practical option for long documents.

Examples:

* Ralph finds it moderately difficult to use the computer, so while he can
operate the Web browser, he finds long documents much easier to read when
he prints them out so that he can hold them in a more comfortable position.
When a web page has small text, he enlarges it on the screen using his web
browser’s Zoom command, which also makes the printed text large enough for
him to read.

js: implementations - if you have a user style sheet, then the UA prints
whats on the screen

jr: why not use the same cut off that we use for zoom

<Jan> We have this: reflowable content

<Jan> Web content that can be arbitrarily wrapped over multiple lines. The
primary exceptions to reflowable content are graphics and video.

jr: if for some reason something can't be reflowed then it is exempt

<Greg> Per Jan's suggestion, change "but reflowed for the print margins."
to "but reflowable content is reflowed for the print margins."

Note: The user must be able to print content as it is rendered for their
video output, reflecting user scaling, highlighting, and other
modifications, but reflowable content is reflowed for the print margins.
... The user must be able to print content as it is rendered on screen,
reflecting user scaling, highlighting, and other modifications, but
reflowable content is reflowed for the print margins.

1.4.4 Printing: The user can print any rendered visual, non-time-based
content to their choice of available printer devices. (Level AA)

js: if the device doesn't support printing...like a mobile phone

jr: mobiles can print

1.4.4 Printing: The user can print any rendered visual, non-time-based
content to their choice of available printing devices. (Level AA)

1.4.4 Printing: The user can print any rendered visual, non-time-based
content to the users choice of available printing devices. (Level AA)

1.4.4 Printing: The user can print any rendered visual, non-time-based
content to the user's choice of available printing devices. (Level AA)

Note: The user must be able to print content as it is rendered on screen,
reflecting user scaling, highlighting, and other modifications, but
reflowable content is reflowed for the print margins.

js: level concern - AA or AAA

jr: keep at AA for now

gl: right, if pushback then AAA

ja: ok at AA

gl: in UA if zoom, then print I still get 'regular' print, the the print
print preview screen allows its own zoom for printing
... is it sufficient that ua doesn't print the zoomed view, but allow zoom
when you print?

<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to add the note and IER to 1.4.4 Printing as above.
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/10-ua-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-907 - Add the note and ier to 1.4.4 printing as
above. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-17].

gl: this requires more steps

<Greg> My (minor) concern is that we feel the "fix it in the print preview
dialog" is an acceptable alternative to automatically printing with the
screen zoom, but the SC doesn't allow it as a viable alternative.

js: print preview zoom does meet all of the other requirements of the SC

ssagent, make minutes

js: this still does not cover the case where some other element that forces
margins off of the page, or prevents reflow

jr: then it is not reflowable content and is OK

1.4.4 Printing: The user can print any rendered visual, non-time-based
content to their choice of available printer devices. (Level AA)

Note: The user must be able to print content as it is rendered on screen,
reflecting user scaling, highlighting, and other modifications, but
reflowable content is reflowed for the print margins.

1.4.4 Printing: The user can print any rendered visual, non-time-based
content to their choice of available printing devices. (Level AA)

Note: The user must be able to print content as it is rendered on screen,
reflecting user scaling, highlighting, and other modifications, but
reflowable content is reflowed for the print margins.

gl: do we address linerizing the page anywhere (print and screen)

<Greg> Do we yet address the proposal about linearizing to a single column?

resolution: use above wording for 1.4.4

q9 1.4.5

https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq11

original

1.4.5 Configure text elements: The user can set all of the following
characteristics of visually rendered text content for headings, main text,
and other elements: (Level AAA)

Text style (underline, italic, bold)

Margins (for example, space above headings, indentation of lists)

Borders

kim's proposal

The user can set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered
text content for text elements including main text and headings:

Text style (underline, italic, bold)

Margins (e.g. space above headings, indentation of lists)

Borders

<Greg> I'm still concerned about the ambiguity of whether "for text
element" means select an element and adjust it, or select an element type
and affect all elements of that type.

<jeanne> we have 1.4.2 version -- The user can set all of the following
characteristics of visually rendered text content for at least headings and
input fields.:(Level AA)

gl: text elements - does that mean individual elements or all elements of
type X

<KimPatch> The user can set all of the following characteristics of
visually rendered text content for text element types including main text
and headings:

kp: text element types

gl: works for me

<jeanne> 1.4.2 The user can set all of the following characteristics of
visually rendered text content for at least headings and input
fields.:(Level AA)

<jeanne> The user can set all of the following characteristics of visually
rendered text content for text element types including at least headings,
main text and input fields:

jeanne will change 1.4.2 to be "text element types"

<KimPatch> The user can set all of the following characteristics of
visually rendered text content for main text and fortext element types
including at least headings and input fields:

* Text style (underline, italic, bold)

* Margins (e.g. space above headings, indentation of lists)

* Borders

q10 1.4.6

https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq12

<jeanne> Line Text Spacing, Capitalization and Hyphenation (Globally):

<jeanne> The user can globally set all of the following characteristics of
visually rendered blocks of text:(Level AAA)

<jeanne> Line spacing between 0.7 and 3.0, at increments of 0.10 times the
font height

<jeanne> Capitalization (undoing all caps)

<jeanne> Hyphenation

<jeanne> Margins (to clear clutter away from blocks of text)

<jeanne> Borders

Capitalization (uppercase, lowercase, author specified)

Margins

gl: overide all caps

js: if author specified all caps, how do we override.
... if author typed in ALL CAPS and did not use a style, is should not be
up to the UA to apply heuristics.

kp: undoing all caps means removing all caps

gl: only those caps made with the style

js: there is more type ALL CAPS than one would expect

gl: so we are saying that the UA must reverse the style 'all caps' and text
type as ALL CAPS

js: that is difficult and a burden
... and what happens to Acronyms and the like

Capitalization (override uppercase style

kp: should we have a note about uppercase style does not apply to text
typed as ALL CAPS, and the font choice of small caps

<Greg> Small caps is a CSS styling, e.g. p.small { font-variant:small-caps;
}.

Capitalization (override text-transform: uppercase style and font-variant:
small-caps)

<Greg> Capitalization (override uppercase and small caps styles)

<Greg> Editorial: change "Line spacing between 0.7 and 3.0, at increments
of 0.10 times the font height" to "Line spacing between 0.7 and 3.0 times
the font height, at increments of 0.10".

<KimPatch> Note: this SC does not apply to apply to text typed as ALL CAPS.
Content authors are encouraged to use style instead of typing text as ALL
CAPS.

1.4.6 Configure text globally: The user can globally set all of the
following characteristics of visually rendered blocks of text:(Level AAA)

Line spacing between 0.7 and 3.0 times the font height, at increments of
0.10

Justification (setting left, right, or full)

Capitalization (override uppercase and small caps styles)

Hyphenation

Margins

Borders

Note: this SC does not apply to apply to text typed as ALL CAPS. Content
authors are encouraged to use style instead of typing text as ALL CAPS.

http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/UAAG20/

1.4.6 Configure text globally: The user can globally set all of the
following characteristics of visually rendered blocks of text:(Level AAA)

Line spacing between 0.7 and 3.0 times the font height, at increments of
0.10

Capitalization (override uppercase and small caps styles)

Hyphenation

Margins

Borders

Note: this SC does not apply to apply to text typed as ALL CAPS. Content
authors are encouraged to use style instead of typing text as ALL CAPS.

<KimPatch> Note: this success criteria does not apply to text typed as ALL
CAPS. Content authors are encouraged to use styles instead of typing text
as ALL CAPS.

js: scaling headings has been lost in these SCs, should be added into 1.4.1

gl: its preserving all size distinctions

<KimPatch> Note: this success criteria does not apply to text entered as
ALL CAPS. Content authors are encouraged to use styles instead of typing
text as ALL CAPS.

<Greg> Capitalization (apply all uppercase or all lowercase styles, and
override upper case or small caps styles) ?

the more we talk the more complex it gets.

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to add a sentence to the Intent that UAAG doesn't care
what you use as a unit, just that you provide the multiples of the unit.
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/10-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to add the note and IER to 1.4.4 Printing as above.
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/10-ua-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to review the use of 'container' in the document
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/10-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to update glossary of viewport and top-level viewport
with text above. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2013/10/10-ua-minutes.html#action02]

[End of minutes]

--
Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
Received on Thursday, 10 October 2013 19:20:24 UTC

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