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Minutes: UAWG telecon 3 October 2013

From: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 13:57:42 -0500
Message-ID: <CA+=z1W=nMhS9PrDwKc7DtO9JeC6BCzsKA-K73-NUWTzcWkMdqw@mail.gmail.com>
To: WAI-ua <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 03 Oct 2013

from: http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html

See also: IRC log  http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-irc
<http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-irc>
Attendees
PresentJeanne, Greg_Lowney, [IPcaller], Jim_Allan, +1.609.734.aaaa, Eric,
[Microsoft], Kim_PatchRegretsChairSV_MEETING_CHAIRScribeallanj
Contents

   - Topics <http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#agenda>
      1. question 1 3.3.2<http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#item01>
      2. question 2 intent of
3.3.2<http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#item02>
      3. question 3 3.3.2
proposal<http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#item03>
      4. question 4 1.4 intent and
examples<http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#item04>
      5. question 5 1.4.1
changes<http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#item05>
      6. q6 1.4.2 new <http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#item06>
      7. q7 1.4.3 new <http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#item07>
   - Summary of Action
Items<http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#ActionSummary>

------------------------------

<trackbot> Date: 03 October 2013

<jeanne> trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group
Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 03 October 2013

<scribe> scribe: allanj

open item 2

<Jan> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/

anyone in UAWG or WCAG can join the TF

looking for facilitators, hopefully 2 of them

open item 1
question 1 3.3.2

https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results

definition of documentation

gl: a little uncomfortable of not even addressing the question of whether
or not the term covers materials not included with the product

jr: what are you guarding against. 3rd party stuff.

gl: materials doesn't ship with product, so its not part, and doesn't have
to be accessible

jr: are you concerned about a11y of material on the web.

gl: 'on the web' was dropped, that is a concern

ja: 'electronically' covers on the web

gl: didn't interpret that way

<Jan> Documentation: Any information that supports the use of a user agent.
This information may be provided electronically or otherwise and includes
help, manuals, installation instructions, tutorials, etc. Documentation may
be distributed (e.g. as files included in the installation, available on
the web). Note: The level of technical detail in documentation for users
should match the technical...

<Jan> ...level of the feature. For example, user documentation for a
browser's zoom function should not refer users to the source code
repository for that browser.

<Greg> I thought "electronically" meant as opposed to in print, and
"distributed" was a verb instead of an adjective.

<Jan> Documentation: Any information that supports the use of a user agent.
This information may be provided electronically or otherwise and includes
help, manuals, installation instructions, tutorials, etc. Documentation may
accessed in various ways (e.g. as files included in the installation,
available on the web). Note: The level of technical detail in documentation
for users should match the...

<Jan> ...technical level of the feature. For example, user documentation
for a browser's zoom function should not refer users to the source code
repository for that browser.

<Jan> Documentation: Any information that supports the use of a user agent.
This information may be provided electronically or otherwise and includes
help, manuals, installation instructions, tutorials, etc. Documentation may
be accessed in various ways (e.g. as files included in the installation,
available on the web). Note: The level of technical detail in documentation
for users should match...

<Jan> ...the technical level of the feature. For example, user
documentation for a browser's zoom function should not refer users to the
source code repository for that browser.

gl: should make sense without parenthetical.

<Greg> Documentation can be distributed with the product or separately
(e.g. on the web).

<scribe> *ACTION:* jeanne to update and smith (remove parentheticals, yet
retain meaning) definition of Documentation: Any information that supports
the use of a user agent. This information may be provided electronically or
otherwise and includes help, manuals, installation instructions, tutorials,
etc. Documentation may be accessed in various ways (e.g. as files included
in the installation,... [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-893 - Update and smith (remove parentheticals,
yet retain meaning) definition of documentation: any information that
supports the use of a user agent. this information may be provided
electronically or otherwise and includes help, manuals, installation
instructions, tutorials, etc. documentation may be accessed in various ways
(e.g. as files included in the installation,... [on Jeanne F Spellman - due

<trackbot> ... 2013-10-10].

UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: available on the web). Note: The level of technical detail
in documentation for users should match the technical level of the feature.
For example, user documentation for a browser's zoom function should not
refer users to the source code repository for that browser.

js: "documentation for users should match the technical level of the
feature." -- suggest that it be

"documentation for users should match the technical level of what the user
wants to accomplish".

jr: hard to know what the user wants to do. more testable to base on
feature (address bar, dialog box, etc)

kp: +1 to jr
question 2 intent of 3.3.2

gl: SC - described in interface, intent - self explanatory, comments most
editorial except the self-documenting
... why are dev. docs not required...only recommended

jr: agree about self explanatory
... dev docs are a second order documentation. this is for the user and
testable
... if it is a deep communication feature that the user doesnt see, how do
we test it

<jeanne> *ACTION:* jeanne to update the Intent of 3.3.2 with the comments
from GL in the survey
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq2 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-894 - Update the intent of 3.3.2 with the
comments from gl in the survey
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq2 [on Jeanne F
Spellman - due 2013-10-10].
question 3 3.3.2 proposal

resolution: proposal accepted

<jeanne> *ACTION:* Jeanne to update 3.3.2 SC from survey
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq3 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-895 - Update 3.3.2 sc from survey
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq3 [on Jeanne F
Spellman - due 2013-10-10].
question 4 1.4 intent and examples

resolution: proposal for 1.4 accepted

<jeanne> *ACTION:* jeanne to move the intent and examples of 4.1 to the
appropriate SCs [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-896 - Move the intent and examples of 4.1 to the
appropriate scs [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-10].
question 5 1.4.1 changes

there are suggested stem handles

discussion of construction of stem handles.

<KimPatch> Global Text Scale, Color, Font

<KimPatch> Text Scale, Color and Font

<KimPatch> Global Text Spacing and Style

<KimPatch> Configured and Reflowed Text Printing

<KimPatch> Text Style, Margins, Borders

<KimPatch> Global Fine Text Spacing, Capitalization and Hyphenation

js: global text is different than by element

<jeanne> Text, Scale, Color, Font Globally

<jeanne> Text, Scale, Color, Font, Globally

<jeanne> Text, Scale, Color, Font, by Element

gl: by element is by element type

from UA point of view

<KimPatch> Allow Text Scale, Color and Font to be Configured Globally

<KimPatch> Allow Text Scale, Color and Font to be Configured

<KimPatch> Allow Preserved Size Distinctions

<KimPatch> Allow Text Spacing and Style to be Configured Globally

<KimPatch> Allow Printing of Configured Text

<KimPatch> Allow Text Style and Margins to be Configured

<KimPatch> Allow Text Fine Spacing, Capitalization and Hyphenation to be
Configured Globally

gl: stem should be short and simple

<jeanne> Text Scale, Color, Font (Globally)

<jeanne> Text Scale, Color, Font (by Element)

<KimPatch> Text Scale, Color, Font (Globally)

<KimPatch> Text Scale, Color and Font (by Element)

<KimPatch> Text Spacing and Style (Globally)

<KimPatch> Configured and Reflowed Text Printing

<KimPatch> Text Style, Margins, Borders (by Element)

<KimPatch> Fine Text Spacing, Capitalization and Hyphenation (Globally)

<jeanne> *ACTION:* jeanne to update the 4.1 stems from the minutes of
meeting of 3 October. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-897 - Update the 4.1 stems from the minutes of
meeting of 3 october. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-10].
q6 1.4.2 new

gl: use 'element type'

<Greg> (I don't really like making the stems even longer by adding Type,
but it would be more accurate; if we can get away without that's good, for
conciseness.)

jr: 'other elements' is untestable

kp: proposal- The user can set all of the following characteristics of
visually rendered text content for text elements including main text and
headings

gl: ONLY for a limited set of types

jr: what might need its own text style.

js: this could be user style sheets for html, but needs to cover non-html
documents (pdf)
... need a list -- form labels, table headers, headings, normal text

jr: form elements covered in highlighting

js: input elements - make the actual controls bigger

<jeanne> *ACTION:* jeanne to write an example of making input elements
larger to increase the click area for users with fine motor issues.
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-898 - Write an example of making input elements
larger to increase the click area for users with fine motor issues. [on
Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-10].

<jeanne> *ACTION:* jeanne to add to 1.4.2 IER Resources to cross reference
to the 1.3 highlighting of element types [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action07]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-899 - Add to 1.4.2 ier resources to cross
reference to the 1.3 highlighting of element types [on Jeanne F Spellman -
due 2013-10-10].

PDF will be a huge problem

<jeanne> The user can set all of the following characteristics of visually
rendered text content for at least headings, main text, table headings, and
input fields.

gl: what happens for documents with no styles (per se)

jr: how is main text different from globally

js: agree

jr: is table heading to html centric

<jeanne> The user can set all of the following characteristics of visually
rendered text content for at least headings, table headings, and input
fields.

<jeanne> it is also a problem for mobile browsers

js: issue for mobile browsers, no user style sheets

<Jan> Gere we say labels and headers and table headers are an example of
headers...http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/UAAG20/#sc_122

<jeanne> *ACTION:* jeanne to add example to IER of 1.4.2 to include table
headers as a type of heading [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action08]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-900 - Add example to ier of 1.4.2 to include
table headers as a type of heading [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-10].

<jeanne> The user can set all of the following characteristics of visually
rendered text content for at least headings and input fields.

The user can set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered
text content for at least headers and input fields.

resolution: 1.4.2 The user can set all of the following characteristics of
visually rendered text content for at least headings, table headings, and
input fields.

<jeanne> *ACTION:* jeanne to add revised 1.4.2 from minutes of 3 October
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action09]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-901 - Add revised 1.4.2 from minutes of 3 october
[on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-10].
q7 1.4.3 new

need to be able to turn stuff off (text style and justification)

<Greg> I would require the ability to turn bold on and off, but only need
to turn off italics and underline.

1.4.3 Configure text globally: The user can globally set all of the
following characteristics of visually rendered blocks of text: (Level AA)

Line spacing of at least 1.0, 1.3, 1.5, and 2.0

Character spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, and 0.09

Word spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, and 0.09

Text style (underline, italic, bold)

Justification - (left, right, full)

discussion of how hard to do these things...for developer and user

gl: would not fail a UA for not setting all text underlined

<Jan> brb

gl: getting rid of all formatting, would turn everything off. but some
users may have a need to make everything bols

ja; would be useful to turn italic into bold

gl: this is global not just for italic items.

<KimPatch> Text style (underline off, italic off; bold on/off)

agree we need units

<jeanne> *ACTION:* jeanne to follow up with proposal on text customization
to clarify the units of measure called for in 1.4.3 proposal. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action10]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-902 - Follow up with proposal on text
customization to clarify the units of measure called for in 1.4.3 proposal.
[on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-10].

<jeanne> Justification - undo full justification

<Greg> I don't want to add a requirement to support justification options
if the original request was just to allow avoiding them.

<Greg> I think the minimum is turning off full justification, and turning
on the default justification for the language direction (left justification
for left-to-right languages, etc.).

1.4.3 Configure text globally: The user can globally set all of the
following characteristics of visually rendered blocks of text:(Level AA)

Line spacing of at least 1.0, 1.3, 1.5, and 2.0

Character spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, and 0.09

Word spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, and 0.09

Text style (underline, italic, bold)

Justification (undo full justification)

1.4.3 Configure text globally: The user can globally set all of the
following characteristics of visually rendered blocks of text:(Level AA)

Line spacing of at least 1.0, 1.3, 1.5, and 2.0

Character spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, and 0.09

Word spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, and 0.09

Text style (underline, italic, bold)

Justification (turn off full justification)

js: remove left, right, full from AAA (1.4.6) and add it here

kp: +1

ja: +1

<jeanne> That will be simpler and easier than requiring requiring the
default justification for the language

js: there is no not-full justification.
... left or right justification removes centering

<Greg> I can live with the proposal to require left/right/full
justification, although it's not my preference because I don't know of any
accessibility benefit of requiring turning ON full justification or right
justification in left-to-right languages.

Resolution: 1.4.3 Configure text globally: The user can globally set all of
the following characteristics of visually rendered blocks of text:(Level AA)

Line spacing of at least 1.0, 1.3, 1.5, and 2.0

Character spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, and 0.09

Word spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, and 0.09

<jeanne> *ACTION:* jeanne to accept the proposal, adding the unit of
measure and changing Justification to justification (left, right, full)
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action11]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-903 - Accept the proposal, adding the unit of
measure and changing justification to justification (left, right, full) [on
Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-10].

Text style (underline, italic, bold)

Justification (left, right, full)

rrsagent: make minutes
 Summary of Action Items *[NEW]* *ACTION:* jeanne to accept the proposal,
adding the unit of measure and changing Justification to justification
(left, right, full) [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action11]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jeanne to add example to IER of 1.4.2 to include table
headers as a type of heading [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action08]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jeanne to add revised 1.4.2 from minutes of 3 October
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action09]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jeanne to add to 1.4.2 IER Resources to cross reference
to the 1.3 highlighting of element types [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action07]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jeanne to follow up with proposal on text customization
to clarify the units of measure called for in 1.4.3 proposal. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action10]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jeanne to move the intent and examples of 4.1 to the
appropriate SCs [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action04]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* Jeanne to update 3.3.2 SC from survey
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq3 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action03]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jeanne to update and smith (remove parentheticals, yet
retain meaning) definition of Documentation: Any information that supports
the use of a user agent. This information may be provided electronically or
otherwise and includes help, manuals, installation instructions, tutorials,
etc. Documentation may be accessed in various ways (e.g. as files included
in the installation,... [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action01]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jeanne to update the 4.1 stems from the minutes of
meeting of 3 October. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action05]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jeanne to update the Intent of 3.3.2 with the comments
from GL in the survey
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq2 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action02]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jeanne to write an example of making input elements
larger to increase the click area for users with fine motor issues.
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html#action06]

[End of minutes]

-- 
Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
Received on Thursday, 3 October 2013 18:58:39 UTC

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