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Minutes: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 29 Mar 2012

From: Kelly Ford <Kelly.Ford@microsoft.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:56:41 +0000
To: "''UAWG list' (w3c-wai-ua@w3.org)'" <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
Message-ID: <FDD93DBB2C16D643AABC1A7111D149F32E921C47@TK5EX14MBXW603.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com>
[Description: W3C]<http://www.w3.org/>

- DRAFT -
User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
29 Mar 2012

See also: IRC log<http://www.w3.org/2012/03/29-ua-irc>

Attendees
Present
Jan, Greg, Jim, Kim, Jeanne, Kelly
Regrets
Simon, Mark
Chair
jimAllan, KellyFord
Scribe
jallan, kford
Contents

  *   Topics<http://www.w3.org/2012/03/29-ua-minutes.html#agenda>
     *   face to face scheduling<http://www.w3.org/2012/03/29-ua-minutes.html#item01>
     *   2.3.1-4<http://www.w3.org/2012/03/29-ua-minutes.html#item02>
     *   Jan proposal<http://www.w3.org/2012/03/29-ua-minutes.html#item03>
  *   Summary of Action Items<http://www.w3.org/2012/03/29-ua-minutes.html#ActionSummary>

________________________________

<trackbot> Date: 29 March 2012

<kford> trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 29 March 2012

<kford> @@ in editor's draft - Agenda (see mail to be sent from Jim on items of focus for this week)

<JAllan> scribe: jallan
face to face scheduling

all: discussion of F2F, or video conference (small groups)

js: rather in person, than virtual

kf: shares discussion of Jim, Judy, Jeanne, Kelly yesterday.
... we are ok, a bit behind but ok
... value in having extended working session.

ja: Austin is available.

kf: MS may be available.

ja: need 8 week notice

<kford> Group looking at F2F in Austin on 6/4-5. Looking to confirm in next day or so.

<kford> Will lock down outside of meeting.

<kford> JA to alert us.
2.3.1-4

<KimPatch> Proposal: Change intent of 2.3.2 to align better with 2.3.4

<KimPatch> For many users, including those who use the keyboard or an input method such as speech, the keyboard is often a primary method of user agent control. It is important that direct keyboard commands assigned to user agent functionality be discoverable, including in rendered content.

kp: 231 and 233 are parallel
... 232 and 234 are parallel (about discovering)

<Greg> So this is designed to complement rather than reiterate the info in the Intent for 2.3.1: It is often difficult for some people to use a pointing device (the standard method of direct navigation) to move the viewport and focus to important elements. In this case some other form of direct navigation - such as numbers or key combinations assigned to important elements - should be available...

<Greg> ...which can then be accessed via the keyboard or speech control technology.

js: are we getting rid of 23x

kp: yes

kf: 232 recognized in content. the intent doesn't talk about content.

kp: it is at the end, in the new proposal

<Greg> I'd add something like "If direct commands are not presented in content, most users will not know about them and so they effectively won't exist."

kp: should be added to 232 and 234.

<KimPatch> 2.3.2 For many users, including those who use the keyboard or an input method such as speech, the keyboard is often a primary method of user agent control. It is important that direct keyboard commands assigned to user agent functionality be discoverable, including in rendered content. If direct commands are not presented in content, most users won't know about them and so they effectively...

<KimPatch> ...won't exist.

<KimPatch> 2.3.4 For many users, including those who use the keyboard or an input method such as speech, the keyboard is often a primary method of user agent control. It is important that direct keyboard commands assigned to user agent functionality be discoverable as the user is exploring the user agent. If direct commands are not presented in content, most users won't know about them and so they...

<KimPatch> ...effectively won't exist.

the above are INTENTS for 232 and 234

<KimPatch> 2.3.2 For many users, including those who use the keyboard or an input method such as speech, the keyboard is often a primary method of user agent control. It is important that direct keyboard commands assigned to user agent functionality be discoverable, including in rendered content. If direct commands are not presented in content, most users won't know about them and so the commands...

<KimPatch> ...effectively won't exist.

<KimPatch> 2.3.4 For many users, including those who use the keyboard or an input method such as speech, the keyboard is often a primary method of user agent control. It is important that direct keyboard commands assigned to user agent functionality be discoverable as the user is exploring the user agent. If direct commands are not presented in content, most users won't know about them and so the...

<KimPatch> ...commands effectively won't exist.

any objections?

none heard

any objections to dropping 2.3.x

Resolved: drop 2.3.x

close action-656

<trackbot> ACTION-656 And Kim to reconcile duplications of 2.3.2, 2.3.x and 2.3.4 all about presenting direct commands in content closed

resolution: drop 2.3.x
... add intents for 232 and 234 directly above
Jan proposal

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0101.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0103.html

Jan tersified.

<kford> scribe: kford

JA Goes over differences in versions he has found with Jan.

JA: Do we like the new wording?

<Jan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0082.html

That was JR: Do we like the new wording?

<Jan> 1.1.1 Default Rendering of Alternative Content (Minimum): For each type of non-text content, the user can specify a type of alternative content that, if present, will be rendered by default,. (Level A)

<Jan> Note: Alternative content may be rendered together with the original non-text content (e.g., turning video caption track on) or may replace the original content (e.g., video with extended audio description replacing original video).

<Jan> 1.1.2 Indicate Unrendered Alternative Content: The user can specify that indicators be displayed when unrendered alternative content is present for rendered content. (Level A)

<Jan> 1.1.3 Render Alternative Content: The user can choose to render any types of alternative content that are present. (Level A)

<Jan> 1.1.4 Default Rendering of Alternative Content (Enhanced): For each type of non-text content, the user can specify the cascade in which to render different types of alternative content, in case preferred types are not present. (Level AA)

<JAllan> ja: +1

<JAllan> 112 and 113 are identical (113 has an eg. but the sc wording is the same)

<JAllan> "The user can specify that content be rendered with an adjacent

<JAllan> indicator when unrendered alternative content is present. "

<Jan> TO REPLACE:

<Jan> 1.1.1 Configurable Alternative Content Defaults:

<Jan> The user can specify which types of alternative content to render by default. (Level A)

<Jan> 1.1.2 Browse and Render:

<Jan> The user can specify that content be rendered with an adjacent indicator when unrendered alternative content is present. (Level A) ## DONE 8 March 2012

<Jan> Note: User agents are encouraged to also provide the ability to display alternate content with, rather than replacing, the primary content (e.g. as a pop-up, tooltip, or annotation).

<Jan> 1.1.3 Identify Presence of Unrendered Alternative Content:

<Jan> The user can specify that content be rendered with an adjacent indicator when unrendered alternative content is present (e.g. an icon to indicate an image has a short text alternative). (Level A) ## DONE TPAC

<Jan> 1.1.4 Rendering Alternative Cascade Order:

<Jan> The user can specify the cascade order in which to render alternative content. (Level AA) ## DONE TPAC

<JAllan> we have to go back to this version

<JAllan> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2012/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20120306/

<JAllan> to see

<JAllan> 1.1.2 Browse and Render:

<JAllan> When a rendered element has alternative content, the user can render

<JAllan> alternatives according to the following: (Level A) @@ 583

<JAllan> * synchronized alternatives for time-based media (e.g. captions,

<JAllan> audio descriptions, sign language) can be rendered at the same time as

<JAllan> their associated audio tracks and visual tracks, and

<JAllan> * non-synchronized alternatives (e.g. short text alternatives, long

<JAllan> descriptions) can be rendered as replacements for the original

<JAllan> rendered content.

<JAllan> kf: any way to remove the (minimum) and (enhanced).

<JAllan> kf: withdraws comment. likes the tersification.

<JAllan> gl: still has issues

<JAllan> ... concerned about new 112 missing the word adjacent. don't want 1 indicator for the entire document

<JAllan> ... don't want to lose that comment

<Jan> GL: Want s to keep adjacent indicator

<JAllan> The user can specify that content be rendered with an adjacent indicator when unrendered alternative content is present.

<Greg> I don't mind Jan's rewrite as long as we don't lose that important concept, but don't want to lose our changed wording that makes sure they can't comply just by having a single indicator on the status bar saying there's alternative content on the page.

<Greg> Jim's change above is just inserting "with an adjacent indicator".

<JAllan> jr: ok with adjacent concept

<JAllan> ... there are 3 level A. may need to adjust the levels. after we agree as to wordings.

<Jan> TALKING ABOUT THIS:

<Jan> 1.1.1 Default Rendering of Alternative Content (Minimum): For each type of non-text content, the user can specify a type of alternative content that, if present, will be rendered by default,. (Level A)

<Jan> Note: Alternative content may be rendered together with the original non-text content (e.g., turning video caption track on) or may replace the original content (e.g., video with extended audio description replacing original video).

<Jan> 1.1.2 Indicate Unrendered Alternative Content: The user can specify that adjacent indicators be displayed when unrendered alternative content is present for rendered content. (Level A)

<Jan> 1.1.3 Render Alternative Content: The user can choose to render any types of alternative content that are present. (Level A)

<Jan> 1.1.4 Default Rendering of Alternative Content (Enhanced): For each type of non-text content, the user can specify the cascade in which to render different types of alternative content, in case preferred types are not present. (Level AA)

<JAllan> jr: can we drop 111 and let the ua decide on the default

<JAllan> gl: no, the default is no alternative content.

<JAllan> all ok with 111 wording

<JAllan> kf: should be AA. UA will do something intelligent.

<JAllan> gl: 112 is ok

<JAllan> kf: problem with 112. wording is confusing (grammar).

<JAllan> working on smithing

<KimPatch> 1.1.2 Indicate Unrendered Alternative Content: When unrendered alternative content is present instead of rendered content the user can specify that adjacent indicators be displayed. (Level A)

<JAllan> kf: there is no such thing as an 'adjacent indicator', confusing

<JAllan> jr: indicator adjacent to the content

<KimPatch> 1.1.2 Indicate Unrendered Alternative Content: When unrendered alternative content replaces rendered content the user can specify that indicators be displayed adjacent to the alternative content. (Level A)

<Jan> 1.1.2 Indicate Unrendered Alternative Content: The user can specify that indicators when unrendered alternative content is present for rendered content an indicator be rendered adjacent to the rendered content. (Level AA)

<Greg> "The user can have indicators..."

<KimPatch> 1.1.2 Indicate Unrendered Alternative Content: When unrendered alternative content is present instead of rendered content indicators can be displayed adjacent to the alternative content. (Level A)

How about this?

<Jan> 1.1.2 Indicate Unrendered Alternative Content: The user can have indicators displayed adjavent to rendered content when unrendered alternative content is present. (Level AA)?

1.1.2 Indicate Unrendered Alternative Content: When unrendered alternative content is available to repalce rendered content the user can specify that indicators be displayed

adjacent to the rendered content.

<Jan> 1.1.2 Indicate Unrendered Alternative Content: The user can have indicators displayed adjacent to the rendered content when unrendered alternative content is present. (Level AA)

<Greg> We started to adopt the "have" wording because some people felt that "has the option" or "can specify" implied the user had to be able to turn it off (specify otherwise).

<Jan> 1.1.2 Indicate Unrendered Alternative Content: The user can have indicators displayed adjacent to rendered content when unrendered alternative content is present. (Level AA)

<JAllan> +1

<JAllan> kp: +1

<JAllan> kf: +1

<Greg> I'm not thrilled with saying adjacent to "rendered content" instead of an *element* in rendered content, because again I don't want UA to comply by having an indicator for an entire frame or window. But I can live with it and hope for the best.

<JAllan> js: don't want to have 'rendered content element' depend on page design

<Greg> I'd be OK clarifying in the Intent.

<JAllan> gl: this shouid be in the Intent.

<JAllan> resolution: 1.1.2 Indicate Unrendered Alternative Content: The user can have indicators displayed adjacent to rendered content when unrendered alternative content is present. (Level AA)

<Jan> 1.1.1 Default Rendering of Alternative Content (Minimum): For each type of non-text content, the user can specify a type of alternative content that, if present, will be rendered by default. (Level AA)

<Jan> Note: Alternative content may be rendered together with the original non-text content (e.g., turning video caption track on) or may replace the original content (e.g., video with extended audio description replacing original video).

<JAllan> resolution: 111 replaced with above ^^^

<JAllan> gl: this is related to 211. we have lost the concept of turning off images. previously

<Greg> I think the solution would be to put it into Guideline 2.11 - Provide control of content that may reduce accessibility.

<JAllan> jr: agree with greg. 211 should say that alt content can replace rendered conent

<Greg> We could modify 2.11.1 to be apply to foreground images as well as background images.

<scribe> ACTION: GL to ensure disabling images bets in 2.11.1\ [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/29-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-720 - Ensure disabling images bets in 2.11.1\ [on Greg Lowney - due 2012-04-05].

<Jan> 1.1.3 Render Alternative Content: The user can choose to render any types of alternative content that are present. (Level A)

<JAllan> gl: big problems with this. lost concept of select and element and choose alternative.

<JAllan> ... if you comply with 111 then you already comply with 113

<JAllan> jr: 113 is A, 111 is AA

<JAllan> jf: explains order of gl 1.1

<JAllan> jr and gl: discussion interpretation of 111 and 113

<JAllan> gl: 113, if ua has setting, images replaced by alt or longdesc. does it comply.

<JAllan> jr: yes

<JAllan> gl: but the intent was more global. are we just reading it differently. as you read it does user have control over individual elements.

<JAllan> jr: agree, individual elements

<KimPatch> 1.1.3 Render Alternative Content: The user can choose to render, element by element, any types of alternative content that are present. (Level A)

<Greg> Maybe something along the lines of "for any content element, the user can..."

<KimPatch> 1.1.3 Render Alternative Content: For any content element, the user can choose to render any types of alternative content that are present. (Level A)

<Jan> Resolution: 1.1.3 Render Alternative Content: For any content element, the user can choose to render any types of alternative content that are present. (Level A)

<Jan> 1.1.4 Default Rendering of Alternative Content (Enhanced): For each type of non-text content, the user can specify the cascade in which to render different types of alternative content, in case preferred types are not present. (Level AAA)

<Jan> 1.1.4 Default Rendering of Alternative Content (Enhanced): For each type of non-text content, the user can specify the order in which to render different types of alternative content, in case preferred types are not present. (Level AAA)

<jeanne> ACTION: Jeanne to renumber Guideline 1.1 when the document is published. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/29-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-721 - Renumber Guideline 1.1 when the document is published. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2012-04-05].

<Jan> 1.1.4 Default Rendering of Alternative Content (Enhanced): For each type of non-text content, the user can specify the cascade in which to render different types of alternative content, in case preferred types are not present. (Level AAA)

<Jan> 1.1.4 Default Rendering of Alternative Content (Enhanced): For each type of non-text content, the user can specify the cascade order in which to render different types of alternative content, in case preferred types are not present. (Level AAA)

<Jan> 1.1.4 Default Rendering of Alternative Content (Enhanced): For each type of non-text content, the user can specify the cascade order in which to render different types of alternative content when preferred types are not present. (Level AAA)

<Jan> Resolution: 1.1.4 Default Rendering of Alternative Content (Enhanced): For each type of non-text content, the user can specify the cascade order in which to render different types of alternative content when preferred types are not present. (Level AAA)

Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: GL to ensure disabling images bets in 2.11.1\ [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/29-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Jeanne to renumber Guideline 1.1 when the document is published. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/29-ua-minutes.html#action02]

[End of minutes]



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Received on Thursday, 29 March 2012 18:57:25 GMT

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