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Minutes: Jan 26, 2012 UAWG telecon

From: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 13:44:26 -0600
Message-ID: <CA+=z1WkMaiJXXL-3snYOEMOk9jM4E6zDCSyUE3TcMJEKnuQ06w@mail.gmail.com>
To: WAI-ua <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
from http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-ua-minutes.html
- DRAFT - User Agent Working Group telecon 26 Jan 2012

See also: IRC log  http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-ua-irc
PresentJim_Allan, Jeanne, Kim_Patch, kford, Mark, Wayne, sharper,
Harper_Simon, Kim, Jim, KellyRegretsJan, GregChairKellyFord,

   - Topics <http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-ua-minutes.html#agenda>
      1. UA Levels <http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-ua-minutes.html#item01>
      2. Wayne's Proposal -
      3. survey
      4. https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20120119/results#xq1<http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-ua-minutes.html#item04>
      5. https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20120119/results#xq2<http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-ua-minutes.html#item05>
      6. https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20120119/results#xq3<http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-ua-minutes.html#item06>
      7. review mobile wiki page
   - Summary of Action


<JAllan> rrsagent make minutes

<JAllan> levels - benefit multiple groups, how many people it benefits, how
hard is it to do

<JAllan> ... how much a a barrier is eliminated

<kford> Scribe: kford
UA Levels

KP: I think we need to think about how many users something impacts.

<JAllan> levels - benefit multiple groups, how many people it benefits, how
hard is it to do

<JAllan> ... how much a a barrier is eliminated

<JAllan> from UAAG 10

<JAllan> Priorities

<JAllan> Each checkpoint in this document is assigned a priority that
indicates its importance for users with disabilities.

<JAllan> Priority 1 (P1)

<JAllan> If the user agent does not satisfy this checkpoint, one or more
groups of users with disabilities will find it impossible to access the
Web. Satisfying this checkpoint is a basic requirement for enabling some
people to access the Web.

<JAllan> Priority 2 (P2)

<JAllan> If the user agent does not satisfy this checkpoint, one or more
groups of users with disabilities will find it difficult to access the Web.
Satisfying this checkpoint will remove significant barriers to Web access
for some people.

<JAllan> Priority 3 (P3)

<JAllan> If the user agent satisfies this checkpoint, one or more groups of
users with disabilities will find it easier to access the Web.

<JAllan> http://www.w3.org/TR/UAAG10/guidelines.html#Priorities

<jeanne> barrier, implementations, difficulty, number of people benefit

<JAllan> 3.1.4 Conformance levels

<JAllan> Each conformance level defines a set of requirements, based on

<JAllan> Conformance level "A": the requirements of all Priority 1

<JAllan> Conformance level "Double-A": the requirements of all Priority 1
and 2 checkpoints

<JAllan> Conformance level "Triple-A": the requirements of all Priority 1,
2, and 3 checkpoints

<JAllan> http://www.w3.org/TR/UAAG10/conformance.html#conformance-levels

KP: I use an example of people walking across a room and pausing.
... Wheu youhave to pause repeatedly you start to realize this is a problem.

JA: When does this cross from accessibility to usability.

KP: I can be hard to judge this across many disabilities.

WD: I think the difference between accessibility and usability is easy to

<KimPatch> excise is work over the work you're doing

<KimPatch> excise that's a conflict between software and disability is

<JAllan> x size = amount of work beyond the task that your are doing
divided by the task effort

WD: If you are in a word processor and you have to think about a bunch of
other tasks just to do what you want, this is an accessibility issue.

<JAllan> software does not get in the way of what you are doing

WD: Excise comes from usability.

KP: Much of the software that we are talking about, it is easy to say this
when it comes to standard software but if the software itself has issues,
such as the AT, then this can problems can be present no matter what.

WD: We are not able to control what the assistive technology does but we
can control is what the user agnet impacts.

JA: Explaining why we are talking about priorities. JB would like UAAG to
define how priorities are arrived at.
Wayne's Proposal -

<JAllan> more info http://www.csulb.edu/~wed/cssStrengths.html

JA: recaps how we arrived at this point.

WD: 1.7 was about stylesheets for HTML browsers.
... I was taksed with something beyond browsers. I came up with a concept
of style profiles.
... For HTML stylesheets are really the best way to create accessible pages
for readers with low vision.
... There are problems. For example not a lot of people who can write them,
especially for end users.

<sharper> FYI http://www.w3.org/community/cssacc/

WD: I believe really want the choice between what the author gives or
something they've managed to obtain and that they likely want to do this

<JAllan> thanks Simon.

<sharper> also RDWG topic -
http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/CSS_Accessibilityif anyone would like to
bring this together as a webinar and w3cnote

WD: For the bread and butter HTML browser, the user should have access to
choose between the author stylesheet and a user stylesheet but a user
stylesheet doesn't mean that the user had to write it. Think of the
stylesheet as an assisitve technology.

<sharper> Also see Vicki Hanson's work on CSS styles for older users (when
she was at IBM Watson)

WD: First thing we want is true separation.
... Second it needs to be able to address all kinds of user populations, be
... We need an isomorphic (sp) image of the page.
... Youneed to preserve the visual symantics of the page.
... Finally you need to be able to change the interface without author

<JAllan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0027.html

JA: What I hear is that user agents should support user stylesheets, users
should be able to change dynamically and turn things off.

JA goes over what he sees in WD's proposal

JA: This is different and I think less controversial than what we have

WD will be crafting text that reflects this discussed behavior.

KP: I liked WD's background explanation.

MH: I found it useful to hear.

Group talking about how to keep some of this background and such in the doc
as an intent.

<sharper> scribe: Harper_Simon

<sharper> ScribeNick: sharper

WD: to contact http://www.w3.org/community/cssacc/ re the guidelines for
their comments too.

<scribe> *ACTION:* Wayne to handle the rewrite of the CSS 1.7 [recorded in

<trackbot> Created ACTION-710 - Handle the rewrite of the CSS 1.7 [on Wayne
Dick - due 2012-02-02].

<JAllan> Barrier walkthrough - Giorgio Brajnik

<JAllan> www.dimi.uniud.it/giorgio/projects/bw/bw.html
survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20120119/

<JAllan> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20120119/results

4 agree and 1 disagree


MH: not sure how you would do this ie 1.2.1

Discussion about how we could do this - YouTube Example

KP: like the example - saying it's and advanced example an not a requirement

JS: nothing does this today - so how can this be level a?

KP: GL suggested that we'd be forced to take the advanced example - not
according to the written example - is this just a working issue?

<JAllan> discussion of Levels by the group

<JAllan> ff has 'properties' associated for images (location, type, size,
dimensions, associated text, and url, as well as more info) would this
count as a repair

<JAllan> sh: decide on SCs first then add the levels

<JAllan> kp: need to look at the whole

KP: trying to understand the top-three from each of us.

<JAllan> kf: everyone has a budget and gets to vote on SC ...

<JAllan> sh: having the FF properties would work for 121-123

WD: important to define what can be automatically determined when deciding
on levels.

JS: lets define the levels - what are they, rate stuff 1-5 and then just
add this up to get the level via a numeric judgement.

KP: tweek, re how many people this may benefit.

*RESOLUTION: Levels sub group - KP, KF, JS, WD*

<scribe> *ACTION:* sharper to take a swing at 1.2 [recorded in

<trackbot> Created ACTION-711 - Take a swing at 1.2 [on Simon Harper - due

*RESOLUTION: Action-711*

Everyone happy to delete

*RESOLUTION: delete 5.4.2*

*RESOLUTION: Combine 5.2, 5.3 and 5.4 into one guideline*
review mobile wiki page


KF: huge desire to understand the mobile space better for accessibility
... our guidelines address mobile MH KP JS

JS: as a group look and endorse - and write and executive summary for it.

*RESOLUTION: Whole group to review
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Applying_UAAG_to_Mobile_Phones this week
so we can say we agree.*

KP: Did this for 2 and where mobile applies we are missing mobile examples
- maybe we need mobile examples....

JA: useful
... in EX Summary - dig out our keyboard discussion - any input device ...

JS: examples will be very helpful - concerned re scope creap

JA: Deadline is TUESDAY


JA: same examples format as standard intent
 Summary of Action Items *[NEW]* *ACTION:* sharper to take a swing at 1.2
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-ua-minutes.html#action02]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* Wayne to handle the rewrite of the CSS 1.7 [recorded in

[End of minutes]

Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
Received on Thursday, 26 January 2012 19:44:57 UTC

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