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Minutes of UAWG telecon of 19 January 2012

From: Jeanne Spellman <jeanne@w3.org>
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 09:33:53 -0500
Message-ID: <4F197B51.1060906@w3.org>
To: User Agent Working Group <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
Minutes
http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-ua-minutes.html

Text of Minutes:

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

    User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

19 Jan 2012

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-ua-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Jim, Kelly, Jeanne, Kim, Mark, Greg, Wayne
    Regrets
    Chair
           KellyFord and JimAllan

    Scribe
           Kim

Contents

      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]call on Friday
          2. [5]Discuss Survey Results -
             https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20120113/
          3. [6]2.11.7
          4. [7]2.11.3
          5. [8]2.11.4
          6. [9]2.11.2
          7. [10]2.1.0
          8. [11]summary 2.11 background images
          9. [12]2.11.7 timebased media examples
         10. [13]2.11.8 semantic navigation examples
         11. [14]2.11.9 track enable/disable
         12. [15]2.11.11 scale and position visual alternative media
             tracks
         13. [16]2.11.12 video contrast and brightness
         14. [17]3.3.3 changes between versions
         15. [18]3.3.4 centralized view
         16. [19]5.1.1 follow sensibility guidelines
         17. [20]5.3.2 implement accessibility features intent
         18. [21]5.3.1 implement accessibility features of contents
             specs
         19. [22]SC to Check from F2F -
             http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0
             018.html
         20. [23]1.2.1 repair missing alternatives
         21. [24]1.3.1 highlighted items
         22. [25]1.8.4
         23. [26]2.1.1 keyboard operation
      * [27]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________

    <trackbot> Date: 19 January 2012

    <kford> trackbot, start meeting

    <trackbot> Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working
    Group Teleconference

    <trackbot> Date: 19 January 2012

    <kford> Scribe: Kim

    length of meeting discussion

call on Friday

    slated to meet tomorrow East Coast 1-4

    <kford> Just a reminder that we meet Friday 1P to 4P.

Discuss Survey Results -
[28]https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20120113/

      [28] https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20120113/

    Kelly: 2.3
    ... when we don't have universal agreement we can either send this
    off for someone, which will take a whole cycle, or we can spend
    group time rewriting

    Jim: I can live with Jean's

    Jean: use Greg's as final sentence

    <jeanne> This success criterion reduces the cognitive load for
    keyboard interface users *, some of whom may also have cognitive
    disabilities*. Navigation by keyboard interface may vary by
    platform, user agent and assistive technology, *requiring
    memorization of a very large number of keyboard shortcut commands*.
    Taken as a whole, this creates hardship for keyboard interface
    users. The *some users* of the

    <jeanne> keyboard interface needs perceivable labels to learn and be
    able to operate navigation effectively, *while those using assistive
    technologies require communication of the keystrokes by programmatic
    means.* Tthese do not have to always be presented, but can instead
    be a user option or on request (e.g. tapping Alt in Windows).

    Greg: I don't think the word programmatically belongs in the SC, but
    if we keep it it does make sense to mention it in the intent

    <jeanne> This success criterion reduces the cognitive load for
    keyboard interface users *, some of whom may also have cognitive
    disabilities*. Navigation by keyboard interface may vary by
    platform, user agent and assistive technology, *requiring
    memorization of a very large number of keyboard shortcut commands*.
    Taken as a whole, this creates hardship for keyboard interface
    users. The *some users* of the

    <jeanne> keyboard interface needs perceivable labels to learn and be
    able to operate navigation effectively, *while some using assistive
    technologies require communication of the keystrokes by programmatic
    means.* These do not have to always be presented, but can instead be
    a user option or on request (e.g. tapping Alt in Windows).

    <jeanne> This success criterion reduces the cognitive load for
    keyboard interface users *, some of whom may also have cognitive
    disabilities*. Navigation by keyboard interface may vary by
    application, platform, user agent and assistive technology,
    *requiring memorization of a very large number of keyboard shortcut
    commands*. Taken as a whole, this creates hardship for keyboard
    interface users. The *some

    <jeanne> users* of the keyboard interface needs perceivable labels
    to learn and be able to operate navigation effectively, *while some
    using assistive technologies require communication of the keystrokes
    by programmatic means.* These do not have to always be presented,
    but can instead be a user option or on request (e.g. tapping Alt in
    Windows).

    Wayne: I don't understand the section while some... programmatic
    means.

    <Greg> "In some cases assistive technology needs to be able to
    discover the keyboard shortcuts, either to convey them to the user
    or to simulate them itself."

    <jeanne> This success criterion reduces the cognitive load for
    keyboard interface users *, some of whom may also have cognitive
    disabilities*. Navigation by keyboard interface may vary by
    application, platform, user agent and assistive technology,
    *requiring memorization of a very large number of keyboard shortcut
    commands*. Taken as a whole, this creates hardship for keyboard
    interface users. The *some

    <jeanne> users* of the keyboard interface needs perceivable labels
    to learn and be able to operate navigation effectively, *while some
    using assistive technologies are able to discover keystrokes by
    programmatic means. These do not have to always be presented, but
    can instead be a user option or on request (e.g. tapping Alt in
    Windows).

    <Greg> "In some cases assistive technologyneeds to be able to
    discover the keyboard shortcuts *programmatically*, either to convey
    them to the user or to simulate them itself."

    Wayne: as intent, OK
    ... why do we need the programmatically,

    Greg: everything is going to have to be exposed programmatically --
    a label would be exposed as text programmatically, but to simulate a
    keystroke it has two understand the relationship -- that that is a
    direct key for a certain control. That's covered by another sc., not
    sure if it has to be in this sc.

    <Greg> Note that the portion of the SC about programmatic access is
    redundant to 4.1.6 Expose Accessible Properties, (j) direct keyboard
    commands.

    Greg: if we leave the thing about programmatic access here, we
    should put a cross-reference to that

    <Greg> If we keep the programmatic access here, we should cross
    reference to 4.1.6.j.

    Wayne: I think this is good enough

    Kelly: any objections

    no objections

    <Greg> Either way, the cross reference should be include whether we
    keep or remove the programmatic aspect of the SC.

2.11.7

2.11.3

    all agreed

2.11.4

2.11.2

    unanimous

    <jeanne> Resolved: Accept 2.7.2, 2.7.3, and 2.7.4 as proposed in the
    survey.

2.1.0

    summary

    Mark: needs to be expanded

    <AndroUser> Ok with Marks

    Correction: Topic 2.10

    <Greg> "In its default configuration the user agent helps prevent
    seizures by not flashing..."

    Wayne: to avoid seizures, the user may configure the way so that the
    flashing is below 2% or does not flash at all

    Jean: the default rather than the user can configure

    Greg: in the default configuration...

    Mark: what's flashing, the entire screen for some element within the
    UI

    <mhakkinen> The user can avoid potential seizures with a default
    browser configuration that prevents the browser user interface and
    rendered content from flashing more than three times a second above
    a luminescence or color threshold (2.10.1), or does not flash at all
    (2.10.2).

    Greg: if it's not the default it would be more the user can avoid --
    emphasize the default configuration over the user can

    <Greg> "To help users avoid seizures, the default browser
    configuration prevents..."

    <jeanne> In its default configuration the user agent helps prevent
    seizures with a default browser configuration that prevents the
    browser user interface and rendered content from flashing more than
    three times a second above a luminescence or color threshold
    (2.10.1), or does not flash at all (2.10.2).

    <Greg> "To help users avoid seizures, the default browser
    configuration prevents the browser user interface and rendered
    content from flashing more than three times a second above a
    luminescence or color threshold (2.10.1), or does not flash at all
    (2.10.2)."

    <Greg> "To help users avoid seizures, the default configuration
    prevents the browser user interface and rendered content from
    flashing more than three times a second above a luminescence or
    color threshold (2.10.1), or does not flash at all (2.10.2)."

    <AndroUser> Good for me

    +1

summary 2.11 background images

    Greg: I can live with it

    Kelly: trivial to change -- I like Greg's change

    <Greg> The user can control background images (2.11.1); present
    placeholders for time-based media (2.11.2) and executable regions
    (2.11.3), or block all executable content (2.11.4); adjust playback
    (2.11.5), stop/pause/resume (2.11.6), navigate, (2.11.7) and specify
    tracks for prerecorded time-based media (2.11.9); scale and position
    alternative media tracks (2.11.11); and adjust contrast and...

    <Greg> ...brightness of visual time-based media (2.11.12).

2.11.7 timebased media examples

    all agree

2.11.8 semantic navigation examples

    <jeanne> RESOLVED: Proposals for Summaries of 2.10 & 2.11 accepted
    as amended

    Greg: screen time makes it look like how much time you can look at
    the screen, minor changes

    <Greg> "Wes has repetitive stress injury that limits the length of
    his computer sessions. He stops playback of a training video when he
    is tired and after resting, he can restart it and navigate to the
    scene where he left off."

    agreed to change

2.11.9 track enable/disable

    Kelly: Mark suggests using the same names

    Greg: using the same name and rewrite for style

    <Greg> Changing the SC to include ""During time-based media
    playback, the user can determine which tracks are available and
    select or deselect tracks, overriding global default settings for
    captions, audio descriptions, etc."

    +1

    <AndroUser> Ok

    <Greg> Style only, but the second example could be shortened to
    start "Gorges is deaf, and subscribes to a web service that streams
    major popular movies." Replaces the first two sentences.

2.11.11 scale and position visual alternative media tracks

    all agreed

2.11.12 video contrast and brightness

    <AndroUser> Ok as is

    agreed

3.3.3 changes between versions

    <AndroUser> When she installs it...

    <Greg> Martha goes to an app store on her computer and notices that
    an update for the web browser she uses is available. When she
    installs it she finds a welcome page talking about the new features
    in this release, and one of the links on that page says "What's new
    For Accessibility". following this link Martha reads about the
    accessibility improvements added and discovers this update had added
    a...

    <Greg> ...feature allowing her to have tooltips displayed for
    elements when she is using caret browsing. The text also informs
    Martha that this feature is off by default and that she should go to
    accessibility settings to turn it on.

    <Greg> > Martha goes to an app store on her computer and notices
    that an update for the web browser she uses is available. When she
    installs it she finds a welcome page talking about the new features
    in this release, and one of the links on that page says "What's new
    For Accessibility". Following this link Martha reads about the
    accessibility improvements added and discovers this update had added
    a...

    <Greg> ...feature allowing her to have tooltips displayed for
    elements when she is using caret browsing. The text also informs
    Martha that this feature is off by default and that she should go to
    accessibility settings to turn it on.

3.3.4 centralized view

    <Greg> Bob downloads a new web browser on his mobile phone. He's
    never used this software before and also uses a screen reader that
    is part of his phone's operating system. he browser's online help
    includes a section on accessiblity that point him to pages
    discussing non-visual access, such as interaction with screen
    readers, as well as helpful hints such as an explanation of the
    screen layout and...

    <Greg> ...a list of supported touch gestures.

    <Greg> Bob downloads a new web browser on his mobile phone. He's
    never used this software before and also uses a screen reader that
    is part of his phone's operating system. *The* browser's online help
    includes a section on accessiblity that point him to pages
    discussing non-visual access, such as interaction with screen
    readers, as well as helpful hints such as an explanation of the
    screen layout...

    <Greg> ...and a list of supported touch gestures.

    Kelly: that's fine

    +1

5.1.1 follow sensibility guidelines

    all agreed

5.3.2 implement accessibility features intent

    <Greg> Most operating systems have conventions and expectations that
    aid accessibility, such as keyboard behavior, support of an
    accessibility API, user interface design, and other standards
    related to accessibility. The intent of this success criteria is to
    ensure that user agents comply with the basic accessibility
    requirements of the platform in use.

    <AndroUser> Or sensible guidelines

    Greg: possible overlap. 531 is about content, 532 contains the word
    content as well, so 531 used a subset that the moment. If we want to
    keep the content and the platform separate we delete the words
    content and from 532 and keep 531.

    <Greg> If we delete "content and" from 5.3.2 then we would delete
    the two intent paragraphs from 5.3.1.

    <Greg> And we'll delete references to HTML and ARIA from 5.3.2.

    <jeanne> 5.3.2 Implement Accessibility Features of platform:

    <jeanne> Implement and cite in the conformance claim the
    accessibility features of platform technology specifications.
    Accessibility features are those that are either (Level A) :

    <jeanne> The user should be able to easily discover detailed
    information about the user agent's adherence to accessibility
    standards, platform standards such as MSAA or JAA, and third-party
    standards such as ISO 9241-171, and should be able to do so without
    installing and testing the accessibility features.

5.3.1 implement accessibility features of contents specs

    <Greg> (We also did the edit to the first paragraph of 5.3.2's
    Intent.)

    <Greg> Most content specs include features important to users with
    disabilities, and users may find it difficult or impossible to use a
    product that fails to support those features. Users should be able
    to easily discover detailed information about the user agentís
    adherence to accessibility standards, including those related to
    content such as HTML and WAI-ARIA, and should be able to do so
    without...

    <Greg> ...installing and testing the accessibility features. This
    will allow them to make informed decisions about whether or not to
    they will be able to use, and therefore should install, a new
    product or version of that product.

    <Greg> Jordy uses a web site which uses WAI-ARIA to identify the
    functions of custom controls. If he used a web browser that didn't
    support this aspect of WAI-ARIA and expose that information to
    assistive technology, the web site would be unusable with his web
    browser. Therefore Jordy needs to choose a web browser that he knows
    fully supports WAI-ARIA, and he determines this by reading
    product...

    <Greg> ...documentation and UAAG conformance claims posted on the
    Web

    <AndroUser> Im back

    Jeanne: most content specs -- you mean specifications?

    <kford> zakim q?

SC to Check from F2F -
[29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0018.html

      [29] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0018.html

    Kelly: items from face-to-face that we had voted no on
    ... list from Jim -- we had voted no on at some point, that still
    need some attention -- do we still think they are wrong or what do
    we want to do with them

    Topic 1.11

    <jeanne> Rendering alternative content defaults

    Kelly: we said the handle was wrong

    <jeanne> Configurable alternative content defaults

    <mhakkinen> +1

    1.1.2 Browse and Render

    Kelly: we wanted to address the ability to have the alternative
    content display along with the default is the comment

    Jeanne: that's getting complex

    Kelly: if we tried to address this comment it would have to be a new
    success criteria

    Jeanne: add to the intent -- this is not preclude having it display
    in multiple...

    <Greg> How about add Note: User agents are encouraged to also
    provide the ability to display alternate content with, rather than
    replacing, the primary content.

    +1

    <Greg> (e.g. as a pop-up or tooltip)

    <AllanJ> +1

    <Greg> Note: User agents are encouraged to also provide the ability
    to display alternate content with, rather than replacing, the
    primary content (e.g. as a pop-up, tooltip, or annotation).

    <mhakkinen> +1

    Greg: Brother places where it would be just as important to display
    both alternative and primary as important as just one of the two. If
    we think that is as important are two options are either to put in a
    second SC about applying them with or to change the wording of this
    SC to say the user has a choice

    Jim: nobody can do this yet, nobody can render them as both so we
    should leave it as an either or

    Greg: you can do it using a style sheet

    Kelly: just a note

    Greg: if it is as important it should be in the SC

    Wayne: what is the purpose

    Jeanne: what is the advantage of displaying both

    Greg: having the image and description of the image because if you
    have some vision -- today you have to hide the image to see the
    description

    Kelly: example of why you want both -- what happens if there's an
    alternate title on object
    ... there could be times when you want to render both
    ... W3C/wai homepage, the alt text

    Jim: you have to go through machinations -- it would be good if were
    just upon the screen so you could see all the titles

    Kelly: I would be good with putting a note for expediency

    Jeanne: right now it's in the main document as a note after 1.1.2

    <AllanJ> ok with note

    agreed to note

    <mhakkinen> have to go. see you tomorrow.

    discussion on how to proceed given that are fewer of us

1.2.1 repair missing alternatives

    Kelly: comment this sounds like what people curse about Microsoft
    word. It's an option

    Jim, Kelly seems okay to me

    <jeanne> W3C doesn't have a quorum policy. We represent the views of
    the group. I think we should not address issues that we know are
    contentious to a particular member, but otherwise, we can go ahead.

    Greg: we are not saying which repair text -- what is expected -- if
    there are no captions for video with this require use
    voice-recognition to create captions -- why would it not?

    <Greg> I'm concerned that the text of SC 1.2.1 requires user agents
    to create repair text for *all* missing alternative content.
    Wouldn't that include using speech recognition to generate captions
    for audio? It's Level A.

    Jim: what is repair text?

    <jeanne> SC: - 1.2.1 Repair Missing Alternatives:

    <jeanne> The user can specify whether or not the user agent should
    generate and render repair text (e.g. file name) when it recognizes
    that the author has not provided alternative content. (Level A)

    <jeanne> Example - Bintu is deaf and relies on captions to replace
    audio. A video does not have captions. Bintu selects a caption
    button, and is informed that no captions exist. The player then
    analyzes the video soundtrack and provides speech to text
    translation served as captions. Note: this is an advanced example,
    not a requirement.

    <AllanJ> repair content, repair text

    <AllanJ> Content generated by the user agent to correct an error
    condition. "Repair text" refers to the text portion of repair
    content. Error conditions that may lead to the generation of repair
    content include:

    <AllanJ> Erroneous or incomplete content (e.g. ill-formed markup,
    invalid markup, or missing alternative content that is required by
    format specification);

    <AllanJ> Missing resources for handling or rendering content (e.g.
    the user agent lacks a font family to display some characters, or
    the user agent does not implement a particular scripting language).

    Jeanne: the added that note as an advanced example not a requirement
    specifically for that

    <AllanJ> UAAG 2.0 does not require user agents to include repair
    content in the document object. Repair content inserted in the
    document object should conform to the Web Content Accessibility
    Guidelines 1.0 [WCAG10]. For more information about repair
    techniques for Web content and software, refer to "Techniques for
    Authoring Tool Accessibility Guidelines 1.0" [ATAG10-TECHS].

    Greg: fine as an example but the SC doesn't exclude things like that
    ... so it says that the don't have to be document object, but it
    still seems to say that it has to generate captions for audio unless
    we do something to scope that otherwise or clarify in the definition
    of repair text

    Jim: definition of repair text --

    Greg: we should probably clarify that in the intent document to
    point out that because the definition for repair text is only for
    things required by the specification it would not require for
    example generating transcripts of audio using speech recognition

    Jeanne: the definition of repair text is only for things required...
    I will add that to the intent

    Greg: do we also want to make a note about feasibility -- like are
    there cases whereit's simply not feasible for the user agent to
    generate a meaningful repair text

    Jim: because this repair text was originally set up for what screen
    readers do if there's no, tries to do a title of there's no title it
    snags the filename as a last resort so the user has something.

    Greg: do we have a list of alternative content -- which ones are
    required by the specification and therefore which would be required

    Jeanne: atag

    <jeanne>
    [30]http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2012/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20120113/#p
    rompting-types

      [30] 
http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2012/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20120113/#prompting-types

    Greg: do they know which one of those are required in terms of
    repair text?

    Jeanne: no, this is what requires -- not used as repair text, this
    is what authoring tools are responsible for

    <jeanne>
    [31]http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2012/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20120113/#p
    rompting-types

      [31] 
http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2012/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20120113/#prompting-types

    Greg: I like to see these things be in the document so we don't lose
    track of them

    <AllanJ> Note: there are some instances when user agents will not be
    able to generate repair text. Such as when a video does not have
    captions. we do not expect the UA to use voice recognition to
    generate captions.

    Jeanne: we can put it at the end of the SC

    <AllanJ> Greg as serious issues ith this. what is requiared
    alternative text and what is to be used to replace it.

    Jeanne: one of ways to resolve it is to eliminate the entire success
    criteria.this is a very HTML oriented success criteria
    ... do we really needed, given the ambiguity and how could be
    misapplied to new technology

    Greg: I'm unsure whether it's needed
    ... you could in your list of questions put that -- that we are
    considering deleting it and see if people protest

    Jeanne: or put it on the agenda for tomorrow

    <AllanJ> I could live with deleting it

    Kelly: I don't think anybody does this today

    Jim: I would be okay with deleting it
    ... I think it's just one of those leftover screen reader things

    Kelly: will bring up tomorrow

1.3.1 highlighted items

    Greg: to do the recommendation you have to require something -- you
    could say at least these -- in the intent, but it's pretty implied
    anyway it's not an exclusive list, it is a minimum list

    Jim: I think this is okay

    Greg: for now, will note that we will keep it, ignore the comment

    <Greg> Maybe clearer to change "presence of alternative content" to
    "elements with alternative content".

    Greg: change to elements with alternative content

    Topic 1.3.3: highlighted input controls

    <jeanne>
    [32]http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2012/ED-UAAG20-20120119/MasterUAAG20120
    119.html#sc-131

      [32] 
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2012/ED-UAAG20-20120119/MasterUAAG20120119.html#sc-131

    Jim: auditory you get a bing when you move over something?

    <Greg> Would these be easier to read if we moved the parenthetical
    examples to the end of each, rather their middles?

    <Greg> E.g. change "enabled controls that take input (e.g. push
    buttons, radio buttons, check boxes, and text input fields, but not
    groupings or static text and images) regardless of whether they are
    read-write or read-only" to "enabled controls that take input,
    regardless of whether they are read-write or read-only (e.g. push
    buttons, radio buttons, check boxes, and text input fields, but
    not...

    <Greg> ...groupings or static text and images)"?

    OK as is

1.8.4

    Kelly: as an action with it so we should skip it

    <kford> Kelly look up action items from Jim's list.

2.1.1 keyboard operation

    <Greg> [33]http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/

      [33] http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/

    Kelly: did we resolve this -- something in the beginning of the
    document that defines -- and action item from last week
    ... we did resolve it -- keyboard interface. We need to replace in
    some portions of document

    Jeanne: we have to do a level review -- the number of a's that
    aren't done now -- go through and skim the level a's to see which
    browsers actually do.

    Greg: it would make a lot of sense to have a reference of which ones
    are implemented and which ones are not.
    ... even if we can find that a couple of obscure browsers support
    it, it's going to look like a new feature request, and if we have
    too many feature requests...

    Jeanne: if we could expand on that wiki page -- listed all a's and
    said who met each one -- the majors.

Summary of Action Items

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________
Received on Friday, 20 January 2012 14:33:57 GMT

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