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Minutes 19 April 2012 UAWG

From: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 13:45:07 -0500
Message-ID: <CA+=z1Wkw5F5giaP3Rd4dtPbAB0Yu0fpqrKS0khi9-3vhJTL+Hw@mail.gmail.com>
To: WAI-ua <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
from http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-ua-minutes.html

User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
19 Apr 2012

See also: IRC log http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-ua-irc
Attendees

Present
    Jim_Allan, Jeanne, Greg_Lowney, Jan, Kim_Patch
Regrets
    Kelly, wayne
Chair
    JimAllan, KellyFord
Scribe
    jallan

Contents

    Topics
        Face to Face Logistics
        Scope of UAAG 2.0
        1.2.1 and 1.2.2  Action 712 on JAN
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0034.html
        Action-690
        1.8.y
    Summary of Action Items

Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to set up tracker document for UAAG.next issues
and the syntax to add it to trackbot. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: JR to Write IER for the new "1.2.1 Support Repair by
Assistive Technologies" [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: JR to Write IER for the new "1.2.2 Repair Missing
Structure" [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Date: 19 April 2012
Face to Face Logistics

Hotel Allandale

7685 Northcross Drive, Austin, TX 7875

512-452-9391

use group name TSBVI-UAAG

$139.00 suite hotel
Scope of UAAG 2.0

<jeanne> anyone looking for support in attending F2F contact jeanne this week.

strategies for finishing the document (levels, sub documents, etc.)

id the scope of features, stop adding SC, anything thing new goes into
UAAG next.

create a wiki to capture ideas

Jeanne will look at ways to manage this information.

<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to set up tracker document for UAAG.next
issues and the syntax to add it to trackbot. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-724 - Set up tracker document for UAAG.next
issues and the syntax to add it to trackbot. [on Jeanne F Spellman -
due 2012-04-26].

all will have responsibility to call any SC a UAAG.next item
1.2.1 and 1.2.2  Action 712 on JAN
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0034.html

action-712

back and forth. ATAG has 'let the UA repair missing information'.

<Jan> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2012/ED-UAAG20-20120411/#gl-missing-alt

proposal:

1.2.1 Support Repair by Assistive Technologies: If text alternatives
for non-text content are missing or empty then both of the following
are true: (Level A)

(a) the user agent does not attempt to repair the text alternatives
with text values that would also be available to assistive
technologies.

(b) the user agent makes metadata related to the non-text content
available through the platform accessibility architecture.

Note: Examples of text values that are also available to user agents,
and should be avoided, include the filename, the file format, and
generic phrases (e.g. "image").

Ed. See http://www.w3.org/TR/ATAG20/#sc_b233

Ed. This leaves open UAs generating captions for instance.

1.2.2 Repair Missing Structure: The user can specify whether or not
the user agent should attempt to predict the following relationships
from author-specified presentation attributes (i.e. position and
appearance): (Level AAA)

(a) Labels

(b) Headers

headers = H1-6, TH

<Jan> (b) Headers (i.e. heading markup, table headers)

gl: 1.2.2 UA predict. what should it do once predicted?

jr: it is repair, so it should do something.
... UA already do lots of repair, fixing nesting, unclosed, non-valid,
poorly formed documents.
... this is a AAA

gl: if it sees bold characters with : then it would be an inline heading 5

jr: yes, user can specify

gl: sounds reasonable

<jeanne> insert code with improved semantics

<Jan> 1.2.2 Repair Missing Structure: The user can specify whether or
not the user agent should attempt to adjust the structural markup from
author-specified presentation attributes (i.e. position and
appearance): (Level AAA)

<Jan> 1.2.2 Repair Missing Structure: The user can specify whether or
not the user agent should attempt to insert the following types of
structural markup on the basis of author-specified presentation
attributes (i.e. position and appearance): (Level AAA)

gl: will need intent and examples.
... are there other examples that should fall into this category
... image with text beneath it, UA creates a caption

jr: image caption doesn't seem to fall in this.
... paragraphs with *, this would be all things that trigger an
accessibility flag.

gl: note in the intent...UAs are encouraged to repair more.

jr: don't want to get too far afield

<Jan> ACTION: JR to Write IER for the new "1.2.2 Repair Missing
Structure" [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-725 - Write IER for the new "1.2.2 Repair
Missing Structure" [on Jan Richards - due 2012-04-26].

Resolution: add 1.2.2 Repair Missing Structure: The user can specify
whether or not the user agent should attempt to insert the following
types of structural markup on the basis of author-specified
presentation attributes (i.e. position and appearance): (Level AAA)

(a) Labels

(b) Headers (i.e. heading markup, table headers)

gl: question about 1.2.1

does this prohibit the UA from showing the filename.

jr: it would be prohibited from moving the file name to the @alt
... it would be up to AT to present to the user
... this would not change the DOM

gl: want the UA to be able present information to the user
... if images off, and no @alt, then UA could provide filename.
... unsure about (b) the user agent makes metadata related to the
non-text content available through the platform accessibility
architecture.

jr: questions also. this is from Simon.
... this is information that is embedded within the media.

gl: this info is not in the DOM or html attributes. only exists in
attributes within the image.
... if there is no standard field in A11y API to provide this information.

jr: perhaps just say programmatic ally available and let the UA AT negotiate

<Jan> (b) the user agent makes metadata related to the non-text
content available programmatically (and not via fields reserved for
text alternatives).

gl: want to leave out platform a!!y architecture.

<jeanne> +1

+1

<Greg> So UA would comply if it exposes exactly one piece of metadata,
and it can be useless one?

jr: it could. it is a low bar. use the IER to explain more.

<scribe> scribe: jallan

jr: we are offloading image processing to the AT. so they would have
to process all images.

1.2.1 Support Repair by Assistive Technologies: If text alternatives
for non-text content are missing or empty then both of the following
are true: (Level A)

(a) the user agent does not attempt to repair the text alternatives
with text values that would also be available to assistive
technologies.

(b) the user agent makes metadata related to the non-text content
available programmatically (and not via fields reserved for text
alternatives).

<Greg> I also think the wording should clarify that "metadata" does
not mean *all* metadata, which would be impossible using platform
accessibility API.

<Greg> Although that would probably be phrased "*the* metadata" or
"*all* metadata".

ja: ***flag*** for call out when publishing the draft

resolution: 1.2.1 Support Repair by Assistive Technologies: If text
alternatives for non-text content are missing or empty then both of
the following are true: (Level A)

(a) the user agent does not attempt to repair the text alternatives
with text values that would also be available to assistive
technologies.

(b) the user agent makes metadata related to the non-text content
available programmatically (and not via fields reserved for text
alternatives).

all: discussion of metadata

<Jan> ACTION: JR to Write IER for the new "1.2.1 Support Repair by
Assistive Technologies" [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-726 - Write IER for the new "1.2.1 Support
Repair by Assistive Technologies" [on Jan Richards - due 2012-04-26].

ja: this would be a good extension, to pull out all metadata related
to an images

close Action-712

<trackbot> ACTION-712 Write an SC to substitute for 1.2.1 and 1.2.2
that gives the user the ability to request the meta data available for
an object, closed

item 6 may already be done.

For UAWG Action-690 proposals for Zooming 1.8.x
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0027.html

<Jan> 1.8.3 Resize Viewport: The user can make viewports resizable,
within the limits of the display, overriding any values specified by
the author. (Level A) ## DONE TPAC
Action-690

1.8.X: Zoom: The user can rescale content within graphical viewports
such that (Level A):

(a) Lower rescale bound: The lower rescale bound is at least 10% or at
least one dimension of the content can fit into the viewport without
scrollbars. For text content, the language's text directionality will
determine the dimension (e.g., horizontally oriented text should be
rescaled such that horizontal scrollbars are not required).

(b) Upper rescale bound: At least 1000%.

jr: you can make text smaller down to 10% of size or until one scroll
bar not required.

gl: user should be able to scale between 10 and 1000%, or beable to
fit with in the hor. or vert. bound of the viewport
... need example

jr: making text really small, its about getting a view of the layout.
... a word document, only want to scroll vertically.

gl: you have a long document, huge 25 feet wide, have to do 10% or 1 %

jr: this is an 'or' so 10%
... there may be formats where they know the bounding limits of the document.

gl: I understand the concept, but the wording seems complicated.

jr: only want to scale in 1 dimension, and background image comes into play.

gl: does any UA do 10 to 1000?

jr: word does 10 to 500

gl: how do you calculate, no current UI for specific numbers

ja: Opera has a numerical scale

<Greg> Is there any real world example where all the reading direction
thing would matter? Or in reality would this just be 10-1000%?

<Greg> That is, a case where a UA would know the maximum width of a
given file format and thus hard-code to it?

ja: WCAG only has to 200%, are we extending it

<Greg> I guess I lean towards the simpler 10-1000% unless we can come
up with an example where the more complex case would apply.

jr and js and ja don't think 200% is big enough.

<Greg> And is providing 1000% useful if the UA doesn't provide any UI
to get that magnification other than pressing a Zoom command 700
times?

jr: 10% or scale until only 1 scroll bar is required
... it the UA know the dimension of the object you are looking at, you
can shrink to 10% or its height or width fit in the viewport

<Greg> Maybe a simpler way of saying it would be something along the
lines of (a) if the file format can handle differing sizes, then
10-1000%, or (b) if the size is fixed, small enough to fit in the
viewport for one dimension...

jr: ok

jan to rewrite 1.8.x

<Jan> JR will take 690 again...working with Greg's wording
1.8.y

1.8.Y: Reflowing Zoom: The user can request that when content within a
graphical viewport is rescaled, reflowable content is reflowed such
that one dimension of the content can fit into the viewport without
scrollbars (e.g., horizontally oriented text should be rescaled such
that horizontal scrollbars are not required). (Level AA)

Note: Limits to reflow include multi-media objects, words without
spaces, and where the author prohibits wrapping.

ja: should just be 'media objects'

gl: note defines non-reflowable content

<Jan> Note: Exceptions to reflowable content include media objects,
words without spaces, and where the author prohibits wrapping.

gl: questions limits of non-breaking content
... don't want to be prescriptive

jr: put in the examples, of non-breaking content. row of xxxxxx, etc,
long URL, should be up to the UA how to break long text
... how far does this go? flash content

<Greg> User should have ability to force wrapping overriding author
settings that prohibit wrapping. Yes, some things may break, just like
they may break when colors are overridden, but the user should be
allowed to try.

ja: canvas is a non-reflowable object.

gl: user should be allowed to override nowrap (by author)

<Greg> Distinction between cases where the barrier to wrapping is
technological (e.g. canvas, image, audio) vs. author preference (e.g.
nowrap).

<Greg> I'd handle that in definition of reflowable content?

jr: layout engines have own rules, and may nativelively prohibit reflow.

<Greg> Distinction between cases where the barrier to wrapping is
technological (e.g. canvas, image, audio) vs. author preference (e.g.
text with nowrap or pre), vs. things like long words with no spaces
which might be left up to user agent/user?

need a definition of reflow

<Greg> Basically, horizontal scrolling (in horizontal languages) is an
accessibility problem, and all things should address how the user can
avoid that problem.

gr will work on definition of reflowable. gr mentions e-pub has this
concept may have a def.

rrsagent make minutes
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to set up tracker document for UAAG.next issues
and the syntax to add it to trackbot. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: JR to Write IER for the new "1.2.1 Support Repair by
Assistive Technologies" [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: JR to Write IER for the new "1.2.2 Repair Missing
Structure" [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-ua-minutes.html#action02]

[End of minutes]

-- 
Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9264 http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
Received on Thursday, 19 April 2012 18:45:36 GMT

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