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minutes: UAWG call 15 september 2011

From: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 13:41:37 -0500
Message-ID: <CA+=z1Wm2gvLv8aur6yO1msLz3B6SG6mQ7h=KKjc8q_h7tK7KJQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: WAI-ua <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
from: http://www.w3.org/2011/09/15-ua-minutes.html

User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
15 Sep 2011

See also: IRC log http://www.w3.org/2011/09/15-ua-irc
Attendees

Present
    Jim_Allan, +1.425.883.aaaa, Jan, +1.609.734.aabb, Jeanne,
Greg_Lowney, Mark, Kelly, Kim_Patch
Regrets
    MarkkuH, SimonH
Chair
    jimAllan, KellyFord
Scribe
    jallan

Contents

    Topics
        Register for TPAC http://www.w3.org/2011/11/TPAC/
        review CSS3
        Mobile a11y
        survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/abc/
        1.7.x Save copies of style sheets:
        1.7y The user agent can inform the user when the author style
sheet has changed
    Summary of Action Items

Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Jeanne to add new SC 1.7.x to document. See minutes of
15 September [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/09/15-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to add the above examples to 2.1.1 Change the
user names. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/09/15-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: mark to come back with proposal for diff of css by UA or
kill the SC [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/09/15-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Date: 15 September 2011

<kford> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JulSep/0010.html

<kford> **ALL OF GL1 IS COMPLETE!

<kford> 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4 2.5 2.6 2.7 2.8 2.9 2.10 2.11

<kford> 3.1 3.2 3.3 3.4

<kford> 4.2

<kford> **ALL OF GL1 IS COMPLETE!!

<kford> 2.5.1 discover keystrokes

<kford> 2.7.1 - 7 preference settings

<kford> 2.11.3, 2.11.4 execution placeholder and toggle

<kford> 2.11.6 Stop/Pause/Resume Time-Based Media

<kford> 2.11.7 Navigate Time-Based Media

<kford> 2.11.8 Semantic Navigation of Time-Based Media

<kford> 2.11.9 Track Enable/Disable of Time-Based Media

<kford> 2.11.10 Sizing Playback Viewport: (examples)

<kford> 2.11.11 Scale and position alternative media tracks (examples)

<kford> 2.11.12 Adjust Playback Contrast and Brightness (examples)
**ALL GL3 IER ARE COMPLETE!!!

<kford> 4.2.1 Hand-off Focus (intent)

<kford> 4.2.3 Nested user agents (focus) (intent) **ALL OF GL5 IS COMPLETE!!

all: discussing the LCWD of Touch events standard
http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-Touch-Events-20110913/

<scribe> scribe: jallan

kp: some utility to touch events. can combine unrelated modes to make
user more efficient.
Register for TPAC http://www.w3.org/2011/11/TPAC/

<Greg> Does the standard identify touch sources and targets and what
specific gestures each supports, e.g. drag, pinch, draw path?

<Greg> That is, equivalent of identifying drag source and target.

js: can register without paying.

several not registered

scribe: we will have a phone bridge

kf: attend by phone.

tpac registration for in person only, jeanne will set up a reg for
folks attending by phone.

mh: change of affiliation, now with ETS. focus on accessibility. web
delivery and device delivery.

in browser irc client http://irc.w3.org
review CSS3

js: pf has requested that UAWG review.

http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/CSS/Spec_Review

www.w3.org/css
Mobile a11y

WAI has requested that UAWG review UAAG for mobile. need sub-group

should cover smart phone and tablet.

mobile review participants - mark (tablet), jeanne, kim, jim (?)

gl: does this concern bandwidth, form factor (small screen), input
limitations (small, limited keyboard), local storage

js: looking specifically at UA on mobile devices (interface, content access).
survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/abc/
1.7.x Save copies of style sheets:

1.7.x Save copies of style sheets: The user can save copies of the
style sheets referenced by the current page, so that they can edit and
load them as user style sheets. (AA)

gl: wanted the last clause to prevent binary downloads of css.

ja: perhaps save as 'text' to prevent binary downloads.

gl: need to be more global. what is the UI for this. user needs ready
access to this. user should be able to specify where it is save.
... this should be included in the EIR. what is the minimum we have to
say in the SC/EIR to make it clear what we want the user to be able to
do.

js: webkit implementation UI is good, FF is poor.

kp: many user don't user tooks because of file management issues. want
this to be easy.

kf: file management, unique to the UA or OS

kp: if you can't find it, you won't us it.

ja: e.g. stuff save in 'application data' hidden folder.

mh: most every browser uses the standard system file handling

<Greg> My example of a user-unfriendly implementation would be that
done by the Session Manager add-in for Firefox. It allows you to save
and restore the state of a session or window, and it saves it as a
text file, but it's hidden in an obscure location that's not told to
the user, and its in a JSON text format that users cannot easily edit.

ja: is the AAA or AA

AAA - MH, KF, JR,

AA - JS, SH

<mth> WAT http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html

undecided - JA, GL

AA - KP

ja: most browsers allow user to save CSS. and their are plugins.

js: adding to draft
1.7y The user agent can inform the user when the author style sheet has changed

1.7.y The user agent can inform the user when the author style sheet
has changed, so they can be warned that they may need to edit their
user style sheet accordingly

kf: what is a change in the CSS?

gl: specific css properties.

kf: not happening.

mh: mod to style sheet. if user made specific css for app, then author
changes css, and info disappears, then what?

js: user CSS is tough, don't want to change.

mh: but what if info vanishes and you don't know because of user css.

js: on big sites, css is tweaked weekly, most invisible to the end user.

kp: if you at least have the info then you can do something about.

kf: very technical, very difficult to compare documents.

mh: since I was pushing this on the last call. need to adjust the ier.

gl: perhaps mark can create scenarios. there may be a need.

ja: suggest, talking with Wayne Dick in CA

<scribe> ACTION: mark to come back with proposal for diff of css by UA
or kill the SC [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/09/15-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-614 - Come back with proposal for diff of
css by UA or kill the SC [on Markku Hakkinen - due 2011-09-22].

<jeanne> ACTION: Jeanne to add new SC 1.7.x to document. See minutes
of 15 September [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/09/15-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-615 - Add new SC 1.7.x to document. See
minutes of 15 September [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-09-22].

zakim: open item 3

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JulSep/0073.html

http://www.csulb.edu/~wed/public/UAAG_2-1Comments-8-19-2011.html

he was reviewing http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20110718/

reviewing first comment: Does the rendering include tool tips? Visual
readers with low vision (VR/LV) need alternative text for icons
especially. Currently the "title" attribute is displayed as a tooltip.
However, since the there is no guideline mandating use of "title" ,
tooltips may or may not be present in WCAG conformant documents.

gl: is this about UI or content? 'title' not well supported by AT or
speech input interface, nor touch interface.
... have address this by saying everything should be accessible by
keyboard, do we need to say more.
... if he reads this and is not sure that the GLs apply to
tooltips...do we need say more

kf: tooltip from keyboard hasn't happened yet in UA.

gl: tooltip is only used a couple of times in our document.

ja: thinks browsers will leave it up to the author to write JS to make
tooltips keyboard accessible.

js: perhaps we should answer by saying how we have covered it.

<Greg> It looks like 1.1 gives users lots of power over when to
replace elements with their alternative content, but nothing about
allowing the user to have the alternative content presented to them in
a transient fashion e.g. by tooltips or other popups when requested.

kp: tool tips used by mouse. usually provides keyboard short cuts, but
mouse users don't need it. keyboard users need it, but can't get at
it.

gl: tooltips may need to be a new SC.

kp perhaps need a tooltip example in 2.1.1

<Greg> Dick has low vision, and can't identify an icon so wants to be
able to read its alternative text. Most users would be able to hover
the mouse over the icon and have its alternative text displayed as a
pop-up or tooltip, but since Dick does not use a mouse, he can
activate a command that allows him to use the tab key to move the
keyboard focus to elements that have alternative content and...

<Greg> ...then press another key to cause the pop-up to be displayed.

ja: but since Dick does not use a mouse, when he arrows or tabs over
an item the 'title' element will display as a tooltip.

discussing problems with tooltip popup in the OS.

<Greg> Discussions of the pros and cons of automatically displaying
tooltips as the user moves the focus with the keyboard.

gl: we don't need 1 UI to solve all problems.

kf: uses tooltips from the keyboard in the OS as an argument for
tooltips in the browser.

<Greg> Dick has low vision, and can't identify an icon so wants to be
able to read its alternative text. Most users would be able to hover
the mouse over the icon and have its alternative text displayed as a
pop-up ortooltip, but since Dick does not use a mouse, he can activate
a command that allows him to use the tab key to move the keyboard
focus to elements that have alternative content. Then,...

<Greg> ...when he tabs to the icon, the browser may automatically
display the "hover" tooltip, or allow him to press a key to have it
displayed.

kf: notes: OS tool tips can be modified in the OS, or turned off

ja: problem with LV using magnification, when try to read tool tip and
move mouse the tooltip vanishes

<KimPatch> Charlie is a speech-recognition user who cannot use his
hands to control his computer. It is much easier for him to use
keyboard shortcuts then click on an icon in a new program. He needs to
be able to see tooltips to discover keyboard shortcuts without having
to use the mouse.

gl: my example should be for 2.1.1

<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to add the above examples to 2.1.1 Change the
user names. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/09/15-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-616 - Add the above examples to 2.1.1 Change
the user names. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-09-22].

<mth> tried to call in again... conference is restricted

<jeanne> mark, use this code 82942. I'll be right there.

<mth> 82942 ok


[End of minutes]


-- 
Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
Received on Thursday, 15 September 2011 18:42:07 GMT

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