W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-ua@w3.org > July to September 2011

Minutes: Sept 8 2011 telecon

From: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 13:59:20 -0500
Message-ID: <CA+=z1W=VuO9ReK=yu8=Q7BSDO6tYD_SEKYGmBEmUj7tuV4jJyQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: WAI-ua <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
from http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-ua-minutes.html

User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
08 Sep 2011

See also: IRC log http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-ua-irc
Attendees

Present
    jallan, MarkH, KimP, GregL, Jeanne
Regrets
    JanR, KellyF, Jan, Kelly
Chair
    KellyFord, JimAllan
Scribe
    jallan

Contents

    Topics
        survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/abc/
        guideline 1.7 style sheets
        proposed SC for additional CSS support
        Ideas for TPAC
    Summary of Action Items

Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: add 1.7.x ave copies of style sheets: The user can save
copies of the style sheets referenced by the current page, so that
they can edit and load them as user style sheets. (AA) and 1.7.y user
agent feature that informs the user when the author style sheet has
changed, so they can be warned that they may need to edit their user
style sheet accordingly [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: jallan add 1.7.x ave copies of style sheets: The user
can save copies of the style sheets referenced by the current page, so
that they can edit and load them as user style sheets. (AA) and 1.7.y
user agent feature that informs the user when the author style sheet
has changed, so they can be warned that they may need to edit their
user style sheet accordingly [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: JS insert text above into the draft. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Date: 08 September 2011

attending TPAC - Jim, Jeanne, Kim, Greg, Mark (tentative), Kelly (tentative)

we will have phone bridge availability

<jeanne2> http://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2011/SessionIdeas
survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/abc/
guideline 1.7 style sheets

user style sheets are important.

browser UI tools are difficult, must use developer tools to change styles.

comment: user styles should be easier to load and switch

<jeanne2> User stylesheets are critically important to low vision users.

comment: safari has a good interface, firefox not so much

<scribe> scribe: jallan

JS: new css stuff coming out should add conditionals to styles and
when they appear.

<Greg> http://www.conditional-css.com/ is first page found searching
for conditional CSS using search engines, but I don't know if it's the
same effort.

<jeanne2> JA: CSS is a challenge to assistive technology anyway,
because it doesn't write to the DOM. Injected text is a real problem.

<jeanne2> JA: UAAG: The user can override the author stylesheet

<Greg> I wonder if we'll need a success criterion allowing user to
override specific pieces of information, such as telling the browser
to lie about the browser and/or platforms versions.

js: does the user style sheet override any conditionals...YES.
conditionals are seen as being useful for user style sheets,
... conditionals should be coming out soon as a working draft. comment now

all agree that CSS and User CSS is important. will stay in the document

1.7.1 Author Style Sheets: The user can turn off the use of author
style sheets, and for every author style sheet defined the user can
choose whether or not it should be applied to (a) the current page, or
(b) all pages for which it is defined.

1.7.2 User Style Sheets: The user can turn off the use of user style
sheets, and for every user style sheet defined the user can choose
whether or not it should be applied to (a) the current page, or (b)
all pages on the current web site, or (c) all pages.

<Greg> Might change that from "on the current web site" to "on
specified web sites".

<scribe> ACTION: JS insert text above into the draft. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-612 - Insert text above into the draft. [on
Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-09-15].
proposed SC for additional CSS support

<Greg> First draft of a new SC: The user can specify how the user
agent will identify itself, the platform, and the media type. This
applies but is not limited to reporting information to servers and to
scripts, loading media-dependent style sheets, and processing
conditional style sheets. (AA)

<Greg> Jim says he's actually done that, when things wouldn't render
in Opera he'd tell Opera to identify itself to servers as IE, and then
things would work correctly. He's also hacked gmail to get mobile view
on desktop, which is better for screen reader users. Mark notes
opposite, where the Samsung tablet defaults to mobile view, but the
device is powerful enough to use the default rendering instead.

js: this seems a hack and may be out dated. perhaps say want the user
to be able to choose how the information will be rendered

kp: gmail labs, change keyboard short cuts using multiple characters
(3) . useful for speech user, could add ] before letters to not speak
a keyboard command by accident.
... let user adjust everything that cuts across disabilities. the
above is an example of that.
... is it possible to add input method to the list of items that the
browser sends to the server

gl: interesting. is there a keyboard, or pointing device.

kp: the more information the browser has, the better it can deliver
information. this is a larger issue

these are also important for the mobile platform

interfaces include: keyboard, pointer (mouse), touch screen (no
pointer), multi-touch, air gesture, speech interface

<Greg> Another possible SC:

<Greg> 1.7.x Save copies of style sheets: The user can save copies of
the style sheets referenced by the current page, so that they can edit
and load them as user style sheets. (AA)

gl: many AT emulate keyboards, sometimes it is important to know if it
is keyboard emulator or a real keyboard, and sometimes not.

<Greg> Does HTML5 provide a means for scripts or servers to determine
which input devices/capabilities the user's system has available?

KP: interface issue is similar to the keyboard focus issue and
keyboard short cuts. mouse users don't need either, but speech users
need both

MH: burden on the UA to keep track of CSS. is there anyway that CSS
may be dynamic? then what

gl: also, you save a style sheet, and there are 15 associated with a
page. what applies to what, which are relevant

mh: what happens when author changes the CSS. is user alerted

<Greg> Mark points out that if the user saves a copy of an author
style sheet and edits it to be a user style sheet, it can become
outdated.

mh: CSS is transparent to the user. need to be experienced to deal with css.

<Greg> Mark suggests a user agent feature that informs the user when
the author style sheet has changed, so they can be warned that they
may need to edit their user style sheet accordingly.

gl: this is part of a broad range of items that the user may want to
keep track of in their settings.

mh: this is different from the user being able to change the CSS at the source

<scribe> ACTION: add 1.7.x ave copies of style sheets: The user can
save copies of the style sheets referenced by the current page, so
that they can edit and load them as user style sheets. (AA) and 1.7.y
user agent feature that informs the user when the author style sheet
has changed, so they can be warned that they may need to edit their
user style sheet accordingly [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - add

<scribe> ACTION: jallan add 1.7.x ave copies of style sheets: The user
can save copies of the style sheets referenced by the current page, so
that they can edit and load them as user style sheets. (AA) and 1.7.y
user agent feature that informs the user when the author style sheet
has changed, so they can be warned that they may need to edit their
user style sheet accordingly [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-613 - Add 1.7.x ave copies of style sheets:
The user can save copies of the style sheets referenced by the current
page, so that they can edit and load them as user style sheets. (AA)
and 1.7.y user agent feature that informs the user when the author
style sheet has changed, so they can be warned that they may need to
edit their user style sheet accordingly [on Jim Allan - due
2011-09-15].

<Greg> We probably need to do a better job of making SC require decent
usability for these features. The 1.7.x is an attempt to make it easy
for the user to do something that they could always do, but would
otherwise require a lot of effort and technical knowledge.
Ideas for TPAC

perhaps a plenary session on platform input methods issues - adjusting
to user system preferences, and explosion of input methods

<jeanne2> Kim: Adjusting to the explosion of input methods


[End of minutes]

-- 
Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
Received on Thursday, 8 September 2011 19:00:02 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Thursday, 8 September 2011 19:00:05 GMT