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User Agent Working Group Teleconference, 17 Feb 2011

From: Simon Harper <simon.harper@manchester.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 19:34:23 +0000
Message-ID: <4D5D783F.40305@manchester.ac.uk>
To: UAWG list <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
W3C
- DRAFT -
User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
17 Feb 2011

IRC log http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-ua-irc
HTML: http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-ua-minutes.html

Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Jeanne to add ""Note: the definition of visited and 
unvisited links is up to the user agent. In some cases it might be links 
visited during the current session, or in other cases links visited in 
the browser's history until that is cleared." to Intent for 1.3.1 
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-ua-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Jeanne to add "CSS 2 specification 
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/box.html#propdef-border-style" to resources 
for 1.3.2 [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-ua-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: Jeanne to add 1.3.3 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JanMar/0045.html to 
working draft [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-ua-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: Jeanne to change 1.3.2 to 1.3.2 (former 3.5.2) 
Highlighting Options: When highlighting classes specified by 1.3.1 
Highlighted Items and 1.3.3 Highlighted Input Controls, the user can 
specify highlighting options that include at least (Level A): [recorded 
in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-ua-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: Jeanne to change text of 1.3.1 to 1.3.1 (former 3.5.1) 
Highlighted Items: The user can have the following highlighted when 
recognized, so that each class is uniquely distinguished (Level A): 
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Jeanne to change wording of 1.3 to 1.3 Provide 
highlighting for selection, active keyboard focus, and interactive 
elements. [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Jeanne to use the following for intent for 1.4.1 Users 
need to be able to access a wide range of font sizes, styles, colors, 
and other attributes in order to find the combination that works best 
for their particular needs. For example, some users want to increase 
font size to make text more legible, while other users want to reduce 
the font size to decrease the need to scroll the... [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-ua-minutes.html#action01]


Attendees

Present
     Greg, Jim, Simon, Kim, Jim, Jeanne
Regrets
     JanRichards
Chair
     Jim_Allan
Scribe
     kford

Contents

     * Topics
          1. Action item review
          2. ACTION-503 - 2.9.2 Time-Based Media Load-Only
          3. ACTION-489 - 1.3.3
          4. 1.11.2
     * Summary of Action Items

<trackbot> Date: 17 February 2011

505 - JR and JA consider how multimedia and executable requirements in

2.9.3 might be improved?

504 -JA rewrite 2.9.1

503 - JA rewrite 2.9.2

502 - JR Work on SC wording related to "Proximity of Status Information

501 - Simon Create intent for Guideline 2.8

500 - Kim And Greg to draft definition of Structural and Operable 
elements for 2.7.4, 2.7.6 and 2.7.7

499 - 493 Jeanne updating Draft

491 - Rewrite 1.8.5

489 - Greg Write discussion of replacing the term "enabled element" as 
used in 1.3.1 Highlighted Items.

some of these will be on a survey coming soon, others are on the list

- please comment. Still others are yet to be completed.

<scribe> Scribe: kford
Action item review

JA: Seems like all the action items from the meeting agenda made it to a 
survey.

<JAllan> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110215/results

JA: We'll take the survey up here.

<JAllan> change intent for 2.9.1 to be more specific about users, 
instead of "some users" say users with X disability

<Greg> Discussion of whether the Intent paragraph about presenting 
alternative content for background images is viable. While there is no 
such content in HTML/CSS, there may be for other technologies and the 
existing paragraph says "if any", so the user agent does not have to 
make up for any deficiencies in HTML, etc.

<JAllan> Jim will rewrite 2.9.1 incorporating changes in the survey. we 
will leave in the sentence about background images in CSS
ACTION-503 - 2.9.2 Time-Based Media Load-Only

I am scribing.

GL: Current wording would not make it clear to user that video is paused 
or how it should be started.
... Gives examples like status bar message communicating video paused state.
... Full comments found in survey response at 
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110215/

JA: Any comments here?

KP: I think it is good.

kford I think it is good also.

<JAllan> +1 to intent Jim, Kim, Kelly

GL: Example 3 removed because it is AT compat and doesn't belong here.

KP: I agree.

JA: Here is where it gets confusing. HTML5 has a poster. Discussion took 
up a lot of time.
... In HTML5 task force talked about html5 poster. This is a placeholder 
for the movie, usually the first frame.
... Today usually have big button or something else obvious about playing.

<jeanne> When animation is displayed, the information shall be 
displayable in at least one non-animated presentation mode at the option 
of the user.

<JAllan> The user can load time-based media content such thatthe content 
is not played until explicit user request.

JS: I pasted part of section 508.

GL: If we look at what Jim pasted in, we are making it sound like 
something the user does actively on a per animation basis.

JA: I'll mangle some more on this one.

<JAllan> change the wording of the SC

3. Intent of Success Criterion 1.4.1

Group talking about comments in survey.

MH: I was thinking about text legibility in a user agent.

JA: Are you saying change the name of all of 1.4?

MH: No just an example.
... Give a scenario of improved text legibility.

JA: Is everyone agree with Greg's word changes i.e. deleting much of the 
text after the new text. JA inserting.

<JAllan> new intent for 1.4.1 Users need to able to access a wide range 
of font sizes, styles, colors, and other attributes in order to find the 
combination that works best for their particular needs. For example, 
some users want to increase font size to make text more legible, while 
other users want to reduce the font size to decrease the need to scroll 
the content. Other users may want to set a...

<JAllan> ...solid color behind all text in order to cover background 
images that might reduce readability.

<JAllan> Users need to be able to access a wide range of font sizes, 
styles, colors, and other attributes in order to find the combination 
that works best for their particular needs. For example, some users want 
to increase font size to make text more legible, while other users want 
to reduce the font size to decrease the need to scroll the content. 
<NEW>Other users may want to set a solid color...

<JAllan> ...behind all text in order to cover background images that 
might reduce readability.

Group has no objections.

<JAllan> ACTION: Jeanne to use the following for intent for 1.4.1 Users 
need to be able to access a wide range of font sizes, styles, colors, 
and other attributes in order to find the combination that works best 
for their particular needs. For example, some users want to increase 
font size to make text more legible, while other users want to reduce 
the font size to decrease the need to scroll the... [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-506 - Use the following for intent for 1.4.1 
Users need to be able to access a wide range of font sizes, styles, 
colors, and other attributes in order to find the combination that works 
best for their particular needs. For example, some users want to 
increase font size to make text more legible, while other users want to 
reduce the font size to decrease the need to scroll the... [on Jeanne 
Spellman - due 2011-02-24].

<JAllan> ...content. Other users may want to set a solid color behind 
all text in order to cover background images that might reduce readability.

<scribe> New SC: Present Status Information in Proximity: The user can 
specify that status information for rendered elements be either 
incorporated into the rendering

or displayed in proximity to the element.

JR not present but group talking.

MH: Do we have this someplace else?

JA: Parts of it perhaps.

Group neutral to accept on this.

JA: I think we could incorporate concepts into intent. Put on hold until 
JR is present where he can advocate.

ACTION-489 - Replacing the term "enabled element" as used in 1.3

Group is in agreement.

That is agreement with proposal.

<JAllan> ACTION: Jeanne to change wording of 1.3 to 1.3 Provide 
highlighting for selection, active keyboard focus, and interactive 
elements. [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-507 - Change wording of 1.3 to 1.3 Provide 
highlighting for selection, active keyboard focus, and interactive 
elements. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2011-02-24].

ACTION-489 - Replacing "enabled element" in 1.3.1

Group talked about definition of visited links.

JA: Is this issue of visited and unvisited a techical thing or a wording 
thing.

GL: Not technical.

rrs agent, make minutes

<Greg> One solution would be to say "(d) visited links (e) unvisited 
links" and after the Intent paragraph have a sentence explaining 
something like "Note: the definition of visited and unvisited links is 
up to the user agent. In some cases it might be links visited during the 
current session, or in other cases links visited in the browser's 
history until that is cleared."

<JAllan> ACTION: Jeanne to change text of 1.3.1 to 1.3.1 (former 3.5.1) 
Highlighted Items: The user can have the following highlighted when 
recognized, so that each class is uniquely distinguished (Level A): 
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-508 - Change text of 1.3.1 to 1.3.1 (former 
3.5.1) Highlighted Items: The user can have the following highlighted 
when recognized, so that each class is uniquely distinguished (Level A): 
[on Jeanne Spellman - due 2011-02-24].

<JAllan> * (a) the selection

<JAllan> * (b) the active keyboard focus

<JAllan> * (c) the active window

<JAllan> * (d) visited links

<JAllan> * (e) unvisited links

JA: When we have a SC with many small parts, we should explore combining 
the IER for all of these.

<JAllan> ACTION: Jeanne to add ""Note: the definition of visited and 
unvisited links is up to the user agent. In some cases it might be links 
visited during the current session, or in other cases links visited in 
the browser's history until that is cleared." to Intent for 1.3.1 
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-ua-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-509 - Add ""Note: the definition of visited 
and unvisited links is up to the user agent. In some cases it might be 
links visited during the current session, or in other cases links 
visited in the browser's history until that is cleared." to Intent for 
1.3.1 [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2011-02-24].

ACTION-489 - 1.3.2

SC 1.3.2

JA: Anyone have a problem with border formatting?

Silence breaks out.

<Greg> Or could say "(c) border color, style, and thickness".

Group discussion which attributes are important.

<JAllan> 1.3.2 (former 3.5.2) Highlighting Options: When highlighting 
classes specified by 1.3.1 Highlighted Items and 1.3.3 Highlighted Input 
Controls, the user can specify highlighting options that include at 
least (Level A):

<JAllan> * (a) foreground colors,

<JAllan> * (b) background colors, and

<JAllan> * (c) border properties including color, style, and thickness

<Greg> "(c) border properties including color, line style, and thickness"

<mhakkinen> http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/box.html#propdef-border-style

<JAllan> ACTION: Jeanne to change 1.3.2 to 1.3.2 (former 3.5.2) 
Highlighting Options: When highlighting classes specified by 1.3.1 
Highlighted Items and 1.3.3 Highlighted Input Controls, the user can 
specify highlighting options that include at least (Level A): [recorded 
in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-ua-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-510 - Change 1.3.2 to 1.3.2 (former 3.5.2) 
Highlighting Options: When highlighting classes specified by 1.3.1 
Highlighted Items and 1.3.3 Highlighted Input Controls, the user can 
specify highlighting options that include at least (Level A): [on Jeanne 
Spellman - due 2011-02-24].

<JAllan> * (a) foreground colors,

<JAllan> * (b) background colors, and

<JAllan> * (c) border properties including color, style, and thickness

<JAllan> ACTION: Jeanne to add "CSS 2 specification 
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/box.html#propdef-border-style" to resources 
for 1.3.2 [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-ua-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-511 - Add "CSS 2 specification 
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/box.html#propdef-border-style" to resources 
for 1.3.2 [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2011-02-24].
ACTION-489 - 1.3.3

SC 1.3.3

<mhakkinen> http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/CR-css3-background-20110215/

<JAllan> Topic 1.3.3

<JAllan> ACTION: Jeanne to add 1.3.3 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JanMar/0045.html to 
working draft [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-ua-minutes.html#action07]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-512 - Add 1.3.3 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JanMar/0045.html to 
working draft [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2011-02-24].

<sharper> close action-489

<trackbot> ACTION-489 Write discussion of replacing the term "enabled 
element" as used in 1.3.1 Highlighted Items. closed

<JAllan> Topic 1.11.1

<JAllan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JanMar/0050.html

<sharper> GL: recommended changes - provided sounds like an author think 
not a UA

<sharper> GL: Example is weak - provided a new example

<sharper> JA: summarises the consensus for re-intro of 1.11.1

<sharper> KP: makes clearer

<sharper> GL: Need to discuss the interpretation of title

<Greg> Per Mark's comment we need to clarify whether "link title" means 
title attribute on link vs. title of linked web resource.

<sharper> JA: could be attribute title of title of the resource

<sharper> MH: needs to be the title of the link resource

<sharper> GL: don't want to force the download of a large resource just 
to get the title from it

<Greg> I wouldn't want the user agent to have to fetch a remote document 
which could be huge just to extract its title.

<Greg> I think having the user agent present the title attribute of the 
link element is reasonable, whereas fetching the title of the linked web 
resource is not.

<sharper> MH: more explicit in stating that we are getting an authored 
or otherwise auto-created - fixed - title

<sharper> JA: leave ambiguous to resolve in the intent

<Greg> Could say "* title associated with the linked resource, if the 
title is available locally"

<sharper> GL: Tiotle associated with the linked resource if it is 
available locally

<sharper> s/Tiotle/Title

<Greg> "title of the linked resource, if the title is available locally"

<Greg> "title of the link target, if the title is available locally"

<Greg> And delete bullet 3 "(link status (visited/selected/hover)" 
because those are covered by 1.3.1.
1.11.2

<sharper> JA: agreed if I make minor changes as per commetms in survey

<JAllan> discussion of technology type (mime type, file extension)

<JAllan> add to intent, don't want the server to download the entire 
resource to get the technology type, size, load time if available locally

<JAllan> gl: if we find out that browsers can do this easily, remove 
last statement

[End of minutes]
Received on Thursday, 17 February 2011 19:34:53 GMT

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