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Minutes: 02 June 2011 UAWG Telecon

From: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 13:41:43 -0500
Message-ID: <BANLkTikqBAjXQq5QPPXxrxrJic94V3b26A@mail.gmail.com>
To: WAI-ua <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
from: http://www.w3.org/2011/06/02-ua-minutes.html

User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
02 Jun 2011

See also: IRC log http://www.w3.org/2011/06/02-ua-irc
Attendees

Present
    jallan, kford, kpatch, mhakkenin, glowney, jspellman, sharper, jrichards
Regrets
Chair
    SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
    Harper_Simon

Contents

    Topics
        welcoming the return of the co-chair!
        discuss survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110601/results
        Comments from Suzanne Taylor
        5.3.1 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110601/results#xq2
        5.3.3 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110601/results#xq3
        5.3.4 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110601/results#xq4
        5.3.5 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110601/results#xq5
        5.3.6 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110601/results#xq6
        accessibility issues wiki -
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/User_Agent_issues_effecting_A11y

 Summary of Action Items
1. Greg to write platform vs a11y spec that help accessibility. as
part of discussion of 5.3.3 in survey [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/06/02-ua-minutes.html#action02]
2. JR to create a section in the Intro explaining that user agents can
be used in authoring processes and that therefore user agents
developers should look at ATAG. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/06/02-ua-minutes.html#action03]
3.  JS to update document to split 5.3.1 to separate content from user
interface. See the survey of 2 June. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/06/02-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Date: 02 June 2011

<scribe> scribe: Harper_Simon

<scribe> ScribeNick: sharper
welcoming the return of the co-chair!
discuss survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110601/results
Comments from Suzanne Taylor
5.3.1 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110601/results#xq2

<kford> I like that one.

All: general discussion surrounding Jan's comments

JR: withdraws comments

JA: cannot see the direct benefits apart from the minor clarity in the
readability of the proposal

GL: bringing these out would make modularise in the testing slightly
easier but this isn't a major thing

JA: what is the consensus of the group?

KP: easier to read if it is together, easier to test if it is a part.

GL moves to look at 5.3.3 If we include this it should include the
same two bullet items at 3.5.1 defining what are considered
accessibility features. Plus they all need unique titles.

http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110601/results#xq3

<jeanne> separate =1

JA: should we split or keep them together?

JR split

KF split

SH Split

GL: neutral

JA: split

KP: neutral

RESOLUTION: split these
5.3.3 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110601/results#xq3

<jeanne> ACTION: JS to update document to split 5.3.1 to separate
content from user interface. See the survey of 2 June. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/06/02-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-565 - Update document to split 5.3.1 to
separate content from user interface. See the survey of 2 June. [on
Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-06-09].

JA: don't see that we need to specifically call out w3 specs that are
implemented. this seems like a granular subset of 5.3.2. and should be
written in the intent of 5.3.2

JS: I have a concern that we are confusing the issue by "W3C
specifications designed to enhance accessibility of the content
technology (e.g. WAI-ARIA)". I would rather see "implement and cite in
the conformance claim how the user agent implements WAI-ARIA." But
this makes WAI-ARIA a requirement of all user agents, and I am not
sure if it applies to ALL user agents.

JR: this is where a subset of the other one.

GL: If we include this it should include the same two bullet items at
3.5.1 defining what are considered accessibility features. Plus they
all need unique titles.
... we don't require any other specifications to be implemented,
however we do say that if there are accessibility features in the OS
etc then that has to be supported it therefore should be a separate
SC, or a separate category and 3.5.1

JA: like the idea of just adding

GL: parallel language to 3.5.1
... I don't think what we're really trying to say comes out in the SC.
... for technologies that you implement support their accessibility
features, and implement accessibility technologies… wordsmithing out
loud
... we need to handle the fact that in some cases there is additional
technologies we want user agents to support or implement
... we could add this to 5.3.1 or if we're splitting up this we could
add it separately

JA: recaps… the third point– would be the platform stuff with an
example of the accessibility API…?

GL: stream of consciousness - wordsmithing becomes too complex for the scribe

<Jan> There is a useful list of platform API links here:
http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20110426/#gl_a12

JA: splitting the platform from the content and then adding the third
one that is parallel to the content one that says you also implement
and document any complementary specs for accessibility, is that
necessary?

JR+1

MH+1

KP+1

KF+1

JS: done we cover this in our standard section?
... do we not just need to make this clear that ARIA goes is here?

JR: 4.1.1 seems to be relevant in this case therefore we do not have
anything about MSAA

GL: does that mean we can take the platform stuff out of 5.3/JR I
think that's right

<Jan> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-UAAG20-20110519/#gl-AT-access

JR: if you want to say something about have should talk to the
platform should go up in 4.1

<JAllan> +1

s/have/how we should/

RESOLUTION: GL to take this off-line and come up with a structured
solution–JR to assist

<Jan> 5.1.1 (former 1.1.1) Non-Web-Based Accessible (Level A) :

<Jan> Non-Web-based user agent user interfaces comply with and cite
the requirements of standards or operating environment conventions
that benefit accessibility. (Level A)

<Jan> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-UAAG20-20110519/#gl-desktop-access

<JAllan> ACTION: Greg to write platform vs a11y spec that help
accessibility. as part of discussion of 5.3.3 in survey [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/06/02-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-566 - Write platform vs a11y spec that help
accessibility. as part of discussion of 5.3.3 in survey [on Greg
Lowney - due 2011-06-09].
5.3.4 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110601/results#xq4

JS: Agrees with proposal

JR: Perhaps at Level AAA.

JA: This seems to be more of an authoring tool feature. Though UA do
have script error consoles and other types of debugging views, so a11y
errors could be included in those. on reflection...the various
developer and a11y toolbars (Wave and WAT) could meet this. I don't
see this rising to the level of a must or should include in a UA to be
accessible to users.

GL: If we include it, it'd be easier to read if the inline example
were moved to the end of the sentence. Plus they all need unique
titles.

JR: related comments - This usage of a user agent is veering into ATAG
territory. I wonder if this could be handled by an informative section
on how user agents can be part of the authoring process and that
browser developers should look at ATAG?

JA: likes this

JS: likes this too

JR: in the informative section we say that user agents are often used
by developers flipping between an authoring tool and a user agent and
therefore you should also look at the ATAG.

MH: I'm in agreement with JR

RESOLUTION: JR will take an action on this

<Jan> ACTION: JR to create a section in the Intro explaining that user
agents can be used in authoring processes and that therefore user
agents developers should look at ATAG. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/06/02-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-567 - Create a section in the Intro
explaining that user agents can be used in authoring processes and
that therefore user agents developers should look at ATAG. [on Jan
Richards - due 2011-06-09].

KP+1

KF+1

SH+1

RESOLUTION: remove 5.3.4 in line with the actions above.
5.3.5 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110601/results#xq5

JS: accept

JR: Perhaps at AAA? This usage of a user agent is veering into ATAG
territory. I wonder if this could be handled by an informative section
on how user agents can be part of the authoring process and that
browser developers should look at ATAG?

JA: This seems to be more of an authoring tool feature. Though UA do
have script error consoles and other types of debugging views, so a11y
errors could be included in those. on reflection...the various
developer and a11y toolbars (Wave and WAT) could meet this. I don't
see this rising to the level of a must or should include in a UA to be
accessible to users.

GL: Looks like a duplicate of the proposed 5.3.4?

JA: JR- could you include this in the write-up for 5.3.4

JS: this is to move to a different area where we thought it would be a
more appropriate section

RESOLUTION: move to part of the introductory statement that JR will write
5.3.6 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110601/results#xq6

JA: this is already covered in the discussions previously

RESOLUTION: no action required
accessibility issues wiki -
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/User_Agent_issues_effecting_A11y

JA: explaining placeholder
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Greg to write platform vs a11y spec that help
accessibility. as part of discussion of 5.3.3 in survey [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/06/02-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: JR to create a section in the Intro explaining that user
agents can be used in authoring processes and that therefore user
agents developers should look at ATAG. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/06/02-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to update document to split 5.3.1 to separate content
from user interface. See the survey of 2 June. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/06/02-ua-minutes.html#action01]

[End of minutes]

-- 
Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster

Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired

1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756

voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/

"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
Received on Thursday, 2 June 2011 18:42:13 GMT

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