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Minutes of the UAWG teleconference of 28 October

From: Jeanne Spellman <jeanne@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 18:28:53 -0400
Message-ID: <4CC9F925.4020007@w3.org>
To: User Agent Working Group <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>

Text of minutes:

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

    User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

28 Oct 2010

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2010/10/28-ua-irc


           Greg, Jan, jallan, Jeanne, MarkH, Kim_Patch

           kford, GRosmaita




      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]Review completed action items
          2. [5]Issues (resolving)
      * [6]Summary of Action Items

    <trackbot> Date: 28 October 2010

Review completed action items



    <JAllan> ACTION-41 [$1\47]: Draft a proposal for printing including
    the 3 concepts --do not lose information, honor author print css,
    scale font size of print

    3.10.x Print Viewport (Level AA)

    When the content of any viewport is rendered to a print viewport

    (e.g., physical piece of paper) (Level AA):

    (a) all visual information present in the originating viewport is
    retained, and

    (b) authored CSS print properties are honored, and

    (c) the user has the option to scale and reflow the original content

    to maintain readability of content that would otherwise exceed the

    physical print page dimensions if rendered exactly as displayed on


    Intent of Success Criterion 3.10.x:

    When a user chooses to render Web content to a print viewport, there

    should be no loss of visual information in the printed rendering. If

    the author specifies CSS Print properties for the content, those

    properties will be honored when the content is rendered to the

    page. The user may increase the font size of Web content to improve

    readability and has the option to scale and reflow the content on

    resulting printed page.

    Examples of Success Criterion 3.10.x :

    A user with low vision is reading an online newspaper with the

    assistance of a screen magnifier and wishes to make a print copy of

    article so that they may continue reading while on the commuter

    The user selects the large print option on their browser's print

    dialog to create an easy to read print version. The resulting print

    version uses increases the default font size to 16pts and reflows

    content so that it fits the page width.

    <JAllan> gl: need clarification. example, in the print dialog, the
    user has a large print dialog. can't expect the UA to have a setting
    for every accessibility need, now we have font family, css, etc.

    <JAllan> scribe: Greg

    Greg questions the example saying the Print dialog would have a size
    option, but not sure it's reasonable to have the print dialog have
    every accessibility option that is available in normal views.

    Jan points out that the examples uses pt size, while usually it's
    specified in relative sizes (e.g. "larger").

    Jan, A says all information in originating viewport is retained, but
    layout is visual information, and if scaling and reflowing changes
    that, is that contradicting the SC?

    Jim points out that often tables and the like are truncated at the
    edge of the page.

    Mark admits that scaling and reflow may not work in all cases, or
    may require printing across multiple pages.

    Jan: did the work on standardizing "reflowable content" ever get

    <jeanne> thank you for completing this action item, Mark. It is good
    to have a loose end tied up.

    Jan suggests introducing here the concept of reflowable vs.
    non-reflowable content, the latter taking up as many pages as

    <JAllan> +1 to Jan

    Kim: printing is very important for people with RSI, who often
    prefer to read and edit on paper.

    <JAllan> " reflowable content, meaning that the text display can be
    optimized for the particular display device. " from

    Greg: In our discussion, though, we're talking about not only for
    different display devices but also for different user preferences
    (e.g. font size).

    <JAllan> definition: reflowable text

    <JAllan> In a word processor, text editor or online publishing
    system, the ability to automatically wrap words in a document to the
    next line as the user changes the window size and thereby relocates
    the right margin of the page.

       [8] http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/reflowable+text

    Greg: wonders if print output is one case of a more general
    situation of reformatting output for another device, such as
    "burning" to a static recording of synthesized speech.

    Kim: users often have to do a lot of work on the document to get it
    to print correctly, which is more problem for users with RSI.

    General agreement to add the new SC, with details to be ironed out

    Greg: Mark, consider that often print style sheets intentionally and
    appropriately hide some information that isn't appropriate in print
    (e.g. highlights of links, ads, background bitmaps). That conflicts
    with (a) in the draft SC.

    Jan: Some visual information that is always lost in print is video.
    Questions whether (a) is appropriate and necessary at all.

    Jim: Mark will work on it offline.

    <JAllan> Action-460 jallan to discuss EVD2 & 3 - add to IER to 4.9
    SC or create new SC, also review CC2,3,4



    Jim: Reviewed media accessibility document to see if anything needs
    to be added to UAAG.

    Greg: Mark and Jim, with Greg's help for a bit, drafted proposal for
    the SC on track manipulation.

    <JAllan> Proposal: add ED information to 4.9.8 track manipulation -
    Intent/Example/Resources add to IER, use case - author created the
    ED as a separate track, then user can select the ED track. 4.9.8
    Track Enable/Disable of Time-Based Media: During time-based media
    playback, the user can determine which tracks are available and
    select or deselect tracks. These selections may override global

    <JAllan> ...settings for captions, audio descriptions, etc. Intent:
    Authors are able to create time-based media with video (perhaps
    multiple video tracks), multiple audio tracks ( e.g. different
    languages, video description, extended video description), and
    multiple caption tracks (e.g. different languages, text of video
    description, text of extended video description). Users should be
    able to...

    <JAllan> ...identify and select from the available tracks. The user
    may also change their selections. The user agent must provide a
    mechanism to list the available author supplied tracks and allow the
    user to select which to play. Examples: Jose, a student with a
    hearing disability, sometimes misses parts of the dialog in movies
    because of the sound level or background noise. He can select the...

    <JAllan> ...caption track to read the dialog and not miss anything.
    Lin, who is blind, cannot see all of the action in suspense movies.
    She can select the video description track in addition to the audio
    track, to hear the action and scenes described during the movie and
    not miss out on the suspense. Mary has an learning and attention
    problem. She needs more elaborate descriptions of what is...

    <JAllan> ...happening in a movie of a science demonstration. The
    author provided extended descriptions for specific concepts. When
    Mary selects the extended descriptions the video pauses, while extra
    audio information about the concept is presented. The author also
    provided a caption track to go along with the extended descriptions
    so Mary can read along with the audio and focus on reading and...

    <JAllan> ...listening to the content. Resources: HTML 5 Video
    Element [10]http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/video.html#video

      [10] http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/video.html#video

    Greg: Minor, in Jose change "select the caption track to read the
    dialog" to "select the caption track to be displayed so that he can
    read the dialog".
    ... To example might add parentheticals with the technical terms
    such as "(closed captions)" and "(video descriptions)".

    Jan: In the Mary example, clarify that the author-provided extended
    captions includes pauses, rather than the video player doing the

    Jim: the extended video descriptions feature in the media
    requirements document was considered for UAAG, but we decided it was
    inappropriate to require or recommend it until a standard exists
    and/or it is implemented in a few user agents.

    Kim: Remember there may be extensions that implement a feature even
    if it's not built into any user agents directly.

    <Jan> Idea: Mary has a learning and attention problem. She needs
    more elaborate descriptions of what is happening in a movie of a
    science demonstration. Mary selects the author-supplied extended
    description audio track for which the video pauses for extended
    descriptions of specific concepts. Mary also selects the
    author-supplied extended description caption track to go along with
    the extended...

    <Jan> ...description audio track so that she can read along with the
    audio and focus on reading and listening to the content.

    Greg: using extensions is true in general, but in this particular
    case it's less appropriate because it really requires a new standard
    for captions/video description or new features in such a standard.

    Discussion of how to get ideas to students or volunteers who might
    create user agent extensions to implement features we need to see

    Jeanne: it is likely that in the near future an official process for
    that will exist.

    Kim: for our group to keep track of things as issues it could be
    easier to pull them out when we talk with potential implementers.

    <JAllan> Action-460 part 2


    <JAllan> Proposal NEW SC

    <JAllan> 4.9.12 Persistence of time-based media content. The UA
    should provide

    <JAllan> a mechanism to allow time-based content to persist beyond

    <JAllan> author-specified duration. (AA or AAA)

    <JAllan> Intent of Success Criterion 4.9.12:

    <JAllan> During playback of time-based media, some content, such as

    <JAllan> or hyperlinked hotspots, may appear and disappear along the

    <JAllan> timeline. Users, for example those with visual or learning

    <JAllan> disabilities, may require additional time to read or
    interact with the

    <JAllan> content which exceeds the authored presentation time. The
    UA should

    <JAllan> provide a mechanism that allows the user extend the

    <JAllan> duration of time-based content so that it persists beyond
    the authored

    <JAllan> time interval.

    <JAllan> notes for examples

    <JAllan> gap-less. authored timeline - caption appears from 1-3

    <JAllan> another caption does not appear until 4 seconds. normally,
    the caption

    <JAllan> would disappear for one second. The user can specify
    through some

    <JAllan> setting that the caption stays on the screen until the next

    <JAllan> replaces it.

    <JAllan> ex 1 gapless captions, ex 2 transient hyperlinks, ex 3

    <JAllan> transcript ex 4, paused caption presentation

    <JAllan> 2. hyperlinks would persist until next caption (gapless) to
    give time

    <JAllan> to click hyperlink allowing the user as much time as they
    need to read

    <JAllan> a screen of captions, before they manually unpause.

    Jan: concerned that lots of things can be time-based media content
    with durations, so this may be too broad, beyond captions to nearly
    all video or audio content.

    <JAllan> jr: the author can provide an end time for a caption
    (erasure). and mark up a blank in the caption presentation. the user
    should be able to over-ride the marked up gap creating a gapless
    caption presentation.

    Jim: Should we make this specific to captions? Greg: Also textual
    video description. Jan: Those should be covered as captions for the
    video description track. Greg: It might be as text only, for routing
    to synthesizer or braille display, without an actual audio track.

    Jan: Not convinced there is need for this SC. Could imagine two ways
    for captions and other synchronized accessibility information can be
    handled: (a) baked in, nearly invisible to user agent, or (b)
    content format that specifies captions with on/off duration etc. In
    the latter case you'd tell UA how to display the info, then it falls
    under our "follow specifications" SC.

    <JAllan> gl: the point of this SC, is to allow the user to override
    the author markup

    <JAllan> ... for example, having a scrolling list of the captions.

    Greg: This is a case where we want the user to be able to override
    the "implement as spec'd" because when the author said caption goes
    away after a second, the user can say they want for example a
    scrolling list so they can take longer to read it.

    In fact, we probably need to modify 1.4.1 "Render content according
    to specification" to explicitly exempt cases where user preferences
    request overriding aspects.

    <JAllan> issue: for 1.4.1 "Render content according to
    specification" to explicitly exempt cases where user preferences
    request overriding aspects.

    <trackbot> Created ISSUE-75 - For 1.4.1 "Render content according to
    specification" to explicitly exempt cases where user preferences
    request overriding aspects. ; please complete additional details at
    [12]http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/75/edit .

      [12] http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/75/edit

    Jan: we can add a note to 1.4.1 or 1.4 to acknowledge the exceptions
    for user preferences.

Issues (resolving)



    Jim: Went through the open issues with a blunt tool and cut the
    number by half, and sent a message to the group about it. Grouped
    together editorial ones, definition ones, etc. Eight possible new
    success criteria.

    Jeanne is working on the editorial ones this week.

    Kim: Kim and Jeanne are working on the glossary, and almost done.

    Jim: Looking for volunteers to take these items.
    ... Recommend doing this on the list, as it would take too long to
    do it on phone calls.

    Kim: Kim and Jeanne will add the new definition issues to their pass
    over the glossary.

    Jim: Jim will take a pass at the new SCs.

    <JAllan> ACTION: jim to review new SC issues [recorded in

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-462 - Review new SC issues [on Jim Allan -
    due 2010-11-04].

    Mark: Will try to look at the Search issues.

    <JAllan> [15]http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/open

      [15] http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/open

    <JAllan> add issue-49 to action-462

    Jim: ISSUE-49 is somewhat print related, so asked Mark to include it
    as well.
    ... Would appreciate help with the new SCs.
    ... Everyone please pick one of your open action items and do it
    this week.
    ... If we want to get to last call we have to tie up a lot of loose
    ends. We'll talk next week, assign sections to different people.
    ... Will send email clarifying the start and end times of the
    face-to-face teleconference on 11/9 and 11/10.

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: jim to review new SC issues [recorded in

    [End of minutes]
Received on Thursday, 28 October 2010 22:29:15 UTC

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