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Minutes: UAWG February 11, 2010

From: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:47:30 -0600
To: "'UAWG list'" <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
Message-ID: <01df01caab53$0c2c5e30$24851a90$@edu>
http://www.w3.org/2010/02/11-ua-minutes.html

User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
11 Feb 2010

See also: IRC log http://www.w3.org/2010/02/11-ua-irc 
Attendees

Present
    Simon, Jim, Kelly, Kim, Jim, greg, Jeanne
Regrets
    Mark_H, Patrick_L, Jan_R, Bim_E
Chair
    Jim_Allan, Kelly_Ford
Scribe
    Kelly, jeanne, allanJ

Contents

    * Topics
         1. resolution for publishing working draft
         2. Discuss "I'm Worried"
         3. Action 282
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JanMar/0054.html
         4. action-280 fallback
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JanMar/0055.html
    * Summary of Action Items

Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: jallan to create use case for no-script etc. for
implementation doc [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/02/11-ua-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to add role and state to the list on action-284
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/11-ua-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Jeanne to add the list of alternative content to Implementing
section 3. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/02/11-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: SH to review UAAG for how it supports commonly known
disabilities. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/02/11-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: sharper to review UAAG for how it supports various
disabilities. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/02/11-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Date: 11 February 2010

<AllanJ> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JanMar/0052.html

<kford> Who si going to scribe today? I can if there isn't someone else.

<kford> scribe: Kelly
resolution for publishing working draft

<kford> JAllan: We have to have a resolution in the minutes that says we
agree to publish for a first working draft.

<kford> Jeanne: Best solution is to wait until after F2F. Publish in March
and promote last draft before working call.

<kford> Jeanne: How to people feel about this?

<kford> JAllan: Any objections to publishing first working draft to
implamentation document in March?

<kford> JAllan: No objections.

<jeanne> RESOLUTION: Publish the Implementing UAAG 2.0 as a First Public
Working Draft.
Discuss "I'm Worried"

<kford> SH: I was silent on the call but as people were discussing things it
came to my mind that were were talking about items that were very specific
to certain disabilities.

<kford> SH: I'm concerned for example how people could be successful with
some of our guidelines and addressing the needs for people with cognitive
disabilities.

<kford> SH: I'm thinking we need to find ways to make user agents open
themselves up more for intermediary agents to do some sort of translation.

<kford> SH: I've sent some of my responses and such to the list where we've
been discussing this.

<kford> SH summarizes his e-mail.

<AllanJ> KF: to what extent insuring that UA has good programatic access
would address your concerns...

<AllanJ> ... so that a UA could write to provide this

<AllanJ> SH: GL2 covers a lot

<AllanJ> ... we have presumptions, menuing commands are in text and can be
read

<AllanJ> ... how does that help folks with cognitive problems who may need
pictograms, or signlanguage

<AllanJ> ... english is a second language for most sign language speakers

<AllanJ> ... if taken to extremes, no UA could not meet all level A

<AllanJ> ... need some mechanism for extensions, external agents, etc. to
provide transformation of content and UI

<kford> GL: You raised a lot of good issues.

<kford> GL: I think we should take on SC and go through it as an example.

<kford> GL: Saying something must be perceivable versus presented as visual
text.

<kford> GL: I agree that assistive technology coompat is important but I
don't think it is enough.

<kford> GL: For example a browser with no keyb9oard access saying you could
use voice input for anything you wanted to do with the keyboard isn't
enough. This wouldn't be accessible.

<kford> SH: Would a browser on the Macintosh that obtained keyboard access
only when you turned on the OS accessibility pass our guidelines?

<AllanJ> GL: keyboards even when referenced are assumed to include
emulators.

<kford> /me testing

<AllanJ> ... everything even pads are doing keyboard emulation even with
gestures

<AllanJ> SH: keyboard access means keyboard emulation by some other
mechanism.

<kford> SH: We've mixed our terms. We say you should provide keyboard access
but what we mean is really that something

<kford> SH: that allows for some sort of intermediate control.

<AllanJ> KF: not following this.

<AllanJ> SH: keyboard access = speech or switch to emulate the keyboard, but
its the same as API

<AllanJ> KF: where are we making this connection

<kford> JA: What I'm hearing you say is that when we say keyboard, the
brwoser doesn't provide a keyboard so this already comes from the operating
system.

<kford> JA: I think you may be going way too far down the chain.

<kford> SH: I'm not saying this at all. I'm saying we are saying that you
can control by the keyboard, or some other mechanism or emulation.

<kford> Much discussion on this topic.

<Greg> Greg: Principles and Guidelines are supposed to be broad, vague, and
subjective. We don't require conformance with them. Rather, a UA that wants
certification for a certain level needs to comply with specific Success
Criteria, which ARE supposed to be specific, objective, measurable, and
narrow in scope.

<kford> GL: Simon, you are suggesting that there are additional items we
should promote/recommend.

<kford> SH: I think this is difficult for us because we don't have someone
who does this sort of work is an expert.

<kford> KP: If you have a universal control, any9one who wants to provide
pictures for example could connect to this.

<AllanJ> SH: GL 5 says nothing about how to make the UI understandable to
someone with a cognitive disability

<AllanJ> ... how is the UI unterstandable if the UI does no include
pictograms

<kford> GL: We need to be including items that have two UA already providing
this.

<kford> SH: What I'd like to do is go through the UA guidelines and see how
they match or support accessibility in the different kinds of commonly
understood disabilities.

<kford> ACTION: SH to review UAAG for how it supports commonly known
disabilities. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/02/11-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - SH

<trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username
(eg. sharper, shayes)

<kford> ACTION: sharper to review UAAG for how it supports various
disabilities. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/02/11-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-283 - Review UAAG for how it supports various
disabilities. [on Simon Harper - due 2010-02-18].

<Greg> From ISO 9241-141:

<Greg> 9.3 Keyboard input

<Greg> 9.3.1 General

<Greg> Although the provisions of this subclause refer to keyboard input,
the source of such input can be a variety of software and hardware
alternative input devices.

<Greg> In this section, "keyboard" should be interpreted as referencing a
logical device rather than a physical keyboard.

<kford> Group now talking about JA action 282.
Action 282
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JanMar/0054.html

<kford> JA recaps mail discussion.

<kford> JA: I tried going into HTML 5 also. Think about this and review.

<kford> JA: Some things I didn't include because they seem like top level
elements. My assumption is that they show in the DOM.

<kford> The unique one is the detail and summary elements in HTML 5.

<AllanJ> from greg: a) raw HTML associated with an element or range,

<AllanJ> b) filename associated with an IMG,

<AllanJ> c) title attribute for any element

<jeanne> ACTION: Jeanne to add the list of alternative content to
Implementing section 3. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/02/11-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-284 - Add the list of alternative content to
Implementing section 3. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-02-18].

<kford> JA: How should we deal with microformats?

<kford> JA: there is some talk in HTML 5 about these?

<AllanJ> GL: what about WAI-ROLE and STATE info might be alternative content

<kford> group talking further about alternative contents.

<kford> Various add-ons and ways UA expose this.

<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to add role and state to the list on action-284
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/11-ua-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-285 - Add role and state to the list on action-284
[on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-02-18].
action-280 fallback
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JanMar/0055.html

<kford> JA: Any objections to this going to our docs?

<kford> JA: this would be under GL 3.11.

<jeanne> jeanne to add email use case to section 3.1.1-2 from the email
/2010JanMar/0055.html

<kford> /me Jeanne would you able to close things up today? I have a
situation brewing here.

<kford> Group talking further about where and how to locate this text.

<kford> JA: I thought noframes and noscript might fall into this.

<jeanne> scribe: jeanne

Kim: I generally like more information

Kelly: what is the harm?

<kford> /me Apologies but I am going to have to leave.

Greg: this may require more of the user agent. Since it is level AA, it
should be alright. I don't want to make it lvl A and require it of everyone.

<AllanJ> scribe: allanJ

discussion of no-script and no-frame as alternative content

GL: need to consider development time and effort

<scribe> ACTION: jallan to create use case for no-script etc. for
implementation doc [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/02/11-ua-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-286 - Create use case for no-script etc. for
implementation doc [on Jim Allan - due 2010-02-18].

Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
Received on Thursday, 11 February 2010 19:48:12 GMT

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