W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-ua@w3.org > April to June 2010

minutes of UAWG teleconference of 10 June

From: Jeanne Spellman <jeanne@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 14:38:14 -0400
Message-ID: <4C113116.5000305@w3.org>
To: User Agent Working Group <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
Minutes:
http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes

IRC Log:
http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-irc

Text of minutes:

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

    User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

10 Jun 2010

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-irc

Attendees

    Present
           kford, Jeanne, Greg, sharper, +1.617.325.aaaa, KimPatch

    Regrets
    Chair
           Jim_Allan_Kelly_Ford

    Scribe
           jeanne, kford

Contents

      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]Tracking UAAG implementations
          2. [5]Promoting next working draft
          3. [6]Discuss implications of HTML 5 accessibility task force
             survey on media
             http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20080526_media-requirem
             ents/results
          4. [7]Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/
          5. [8]3.10.11
          6. [9]3.10.12 Indicate Viewport Position
          7. [10]4.7.x
          8. [11]5.3.6 Appropriate Language
      * [12]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________

    <trackbot> Date: 10 June 2010

    <jeanne> scribe: jeanne

Tracking UAAG implementations

    KF: We have a short term and long term need to track real world
    implementations of UAAG, the short term is to see what our gaps are
    in our success criteria, and long term to get our guidelines
    approved. Does everyone have Excel available if we track it in that.

    GL: Does Excel have the ability to share the document and let
    everyone update it?

    [suggestions of other formats - Google docs]

    KF: We will list the success criteria and major browsers. Can
    everyone look at their favorite browsers and see where they meet our
    success criteria.
    ... I will send out a spreadsheet and ask everyone to help start
    filling it in.

    GL: Excel isn't the best format, because it doesn't allow things
    like linking to screenshots, etc.

    KF: This is just a start.

Promoting next working draft

    JS: We will need to add a column for how to access the feature, as
    we will need that to write test procedures.

    <kford> scribe: kford

    JS: The way I figure is our next draft is last working draft before
    we try to have a last call.

    W3C process tends to see a lot of people waiting for last call to
    comment.

    This can result in a 2nd last call.

    JS: Key to avoide is to try and get a lot of reviews on the draft
    before last call.
    ... Personal contact is the key.
    ... We need people from across the spectrum. Viudeo industry,
    browser industry, disablity community, AT vendors.
    ... I'd like to see us try to pull out the stops to personally get
    them to review.
    ... If possible CC me on this.
    ... Do not send to the list if you want personal contact addresses
    to be private. List is public.
    ... I'd like to try and get 200 people to look at this.
    ... In the hopes that we'd end up with 50.
    ... Can people get behind this.

    KP: Maybe not that many but yes.

    GL: How many open issues and actions do we have that could impact
    the document.
    ... Are we converging toward 0?

    <jeanne> [13]http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/

      [13] http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/

Discuss implications of HTML 5 accessibility task force survey on media
[14]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20080526_media-requirements/res
ults

      [14] 
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20080526_media-requirements/results

    <jeanne> KF: Jim asked for this survey to be added to the agenda.
    The HTML5/A11y Task Force is looking for comments on this survey.

    JS: The doc originated from the accessibility task force wanting to
    have all the reqs for video and audio in one doc.
    ... the goal was to help HTML5 understand everything in one place.
    ... The document became to extensive that folks are now looking to
    publish this for more groups.
    ... It broadened in scope and is different form what W3C might do
    but is powerful in detailing media requirements acorss multiple
    platforms.

    group looking through doc at high level.

    <jeanne> KP: The structural navigation does not seem to be robust. I
    have seen players that allow advance by sentence.

    <jeanne> KF: Does this media document show up gaps in our document?
    Or do we see anything that is widely divergent from our document,
    send a message to the list.

Survey [15]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/

      [15] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/

3.10.11

    <jeanne> [16]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/results

      [16] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/results

    <jeanne> [discussion of Greg's comments]

    <jeanne> KF: If we redefined viewport to exclude dialog boxes, could
    you accept it?

    <jeanne> GL: I'm not sure. If in my browser, I have (for example)
    large menus, thick borders, and high contrast. So if I spawn a new
    window, it has those features. But if it spawns a dialog box, does
    it makes sense to have all those features in the dialog box? The
    dialog box could end up with the full browser status bar, or menu
    bar.

    <jeanne> KF: this is for opening new windows, that if you open up a
    new window, you get the features we already set.

    <jeanne> GL: I'm not sure it wouldn't include CSS list boxes or
    multiline edit controls.

    <jeanne> JS: Could we put in a note that clarifies it?

    <jeanne> SH: If it opens a non-specialized window, then it has to
    follow the features. But the modal dialog boxes would be exluded,
    because the author typically requests modal dialog boxes for
    specific tasks. If the author doesn't, then it has to follow the
    success criteria.

    <jeanne> ... the browser generates these out of it's standard
    toolkit. The browser knows what it is putting up on the screen. And
    knows how to match it to the operating system look and feel.

    <jeanne> JS: If the author generates their own dialog box and the
    browser doesn't know it, then the browser should give it all the
    options that the user says they need.

    <jeanne> SH: If an author decides to write their own dialog boxes,
    then they may get a "dodgey" result.

    <jeanne> Note: Dialog boxes or other special purpose viewports that
    provide limited functionality, does not have to spawn all the
    user-requested features that do not apply to that special function.

    <jeanne> Note: Dialog boxes or other special purpose viewports that
    provide limited functionality, do not have to spawn all the
    user-requested features that do not apply to that special function.

    <jeanne> ACTION: JS to update 3.10.11 to accept the survey with
    Jim's edits and to add the following note to the success criteria:
    Note: Dialog boxes or other special purpose viewports that provide
    limited functionality, do not have to spawn all the user-requested
    features that do not apply to that special function. [recorded in
    [17]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-402 - Update 3.10.11 to accept the survey
    with Jim's edits and to add the following note to the success
    criteria: Note: Dialog boxes or other special purpose viewports that
    provide limited functionality, do not have to spawn all the
    user-requested features that do not apply to that special function.
    [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-06-17].

3.10.12 Indicate Viewport Position

    <jeanne>
    [18]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/results#xq12

      [18] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/results#xq12

    <jeanne> ACTION: JS to update document 3.10.12 with Marks' edits:
    3.10.12 Indicate Viewport Position: Indicate the viewport's position
    relative to rendered content (e.g., the proportion along an audio or
    video timeline, the proportion of a Web page before the current
    position ), and what proportion of the content is currently visible
    in the viewport along either vertical or horizontal dimension.
    (Level AAA) [recorded in
    [19]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-403 - Update document 3.10.12 with Marks'
    edits: 3.10.12 Indicate Viewport Position: Indicate the viewport's
    position relative to rendered content (e.g., the proportion along an
    audio or video timeline, the proportion of a Web page before the
    current position ), and what proportion of the content is currently
    visible in the viewport along either vertical or horizontal
    dimension. (Level AAA) [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-06-17].

4.7.x

    <jeanne> Has rewrites pending for next weeks survey.

5.3.6 Appropriate Language

    <jeanne> It is missing the level.

    <jeanne> KF: I think AA.

    <jeanne> GL: I don't know how hard it would be to do. I think in
    some languages, like right to left languages, it might be very hard
    to do, but I don't know.

    <jeanne> KF: This is vaguely written "react appropriately".

    <jeanne> GL: If we try not to make it so broad, that we can't figure
    out what would not be required is a problem.

    <jeanne> GL: We know that it should pass the language to a speech
    syntheser. Use an appropriate font, if available. Correctly handling
    left to right, right to left, in terms of read aloud, or caret
    browsing.

    <jeanne> SH: It seems conflated to me, that it could be language or
    linguistics.

    <jeanne> If the user agent recognizes a change to the natural
    language in rendered content, it uses the speech synthesis
    appropriate to that language, if available.

    <jeanne> SH: this part seems to be about voicing, if it should also
    be about gender appropriate.

    <jeanne> GL: I don't think there is a way to code speech gender
    changes.

    <jeanne> ... something with voice gender changes, would already have
    that necessary information coded, so the user agent wouldn't hve to
    take an special actions, except pass the information from the
    author.

    <jeanne> GL: My proposal is make this just about speech and font.
    Use voice and fonts appropriate to the changes in natural language.

    <jeanne> When rendering content use voice characteristics and fonts
    appropriate to the recognized changes in natural language.

    <jeanne> SH: is this more like 3.5.8?

    <jeanne> KF: I propose we delete the font stuff and move it into 3.8
    and make it a AA.

    <jeanne> [agreement]

    <jeanne> ACTION: JS to update the document to remove the font
    reference in 5.3.6 and move it to 3.8.x [recorded in
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-404 - Update the document to remove the
    font reference in 5.3.6 and move it to 3.8.x [on Jeanne Spellman -
    due 2010-06-17].

    <jeanne> chair: Kelly

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: JS to update 3.10.11 to accept the survey with Jim's
    edits and to add the following note to the success criteria: Note:
    Dialog boxes or other special purpose viewports that provide limited
    functionality, do not have to spawn all the user-requested features
    that do not apply to that special function. [recorded in
    [21]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: JS to update document 3.10.12 with Marks' edits:
    3.10.12 Indicate Viewport Position: Indicate the viewport's position
    relative to rendered content (e.g., the proportion along an audio or
    video timeline, the proportion of a Web page before the current
    position ), and what proportion of the content is currently visible
    in the viewport along either vertical or horizontal dimension.
    (Level AAA) [recorded in
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: JS to update the document to remove the font reference
    in 5.3.6 and move it to 3.8.x [recorded in
    [23]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes.html#action03]

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________


     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [24]scribe.perl version 1.135
     ([25]CVS log)
     $Date: 2010/06/10 18:36:35 $
      _________________________________________________________

      [24] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
      [25] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

    [Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20
Check for newer version at [26]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002
/scribe/

      [26] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found Scribe: jeanne
Inferring ScribeNick: jeanne
Found Scribe: kford
Inferring ScribeNick: kford
Scribes: jeanne, kford
ScribeNicks: jeanne, kford
Default Present: kford, Jeanne, Greg, sharper, +1.617.325.aaaa, KimPatc
h
Present: kford Jeanne Greg sharper +1.617.325.aaaa KimPatch
Found Date: 10 Jun 2010
Guessing minutes URL: [27]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes.html
People with action items: js

      [27] http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes.html

    End of [28]scribe.perl diagnostic output]

      [28] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

    User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

10 Jun 2010

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-irc

Attendees

    Present
           kford, Jeanne, Greg, sharper, +1.617.325.aaaa, KimPatch

    Regrets
    Chair
           Jim_Allan_Kelly_Ford

    Scribe
           jeanne, kford

Contents

      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]Tracking UAAG implementations
          2. [5]Promoting next working draft
          3. [6]Discuss implications of HTML 5 accessibility task force
             survey on media
             http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20080526_media-requirem
             ents/results
          4. [7]Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/
          5. [8]3.10.11
          6. [9]3.10.12 Indicate Viewport Position
          7. [10]4.7.x
          8. [11]5.3.6 Appropriate Language
      * [12]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________

    <trackbot> Date: 10 June 2010

    <jeanne> scribe: jeanne

Tracking UAAG implementations

    KF: We have a short term and long term need to track real world
    implementations of UAAG, the short term is to see what our gaps are
    in our success criteria, and long term to get our guidelines
    approved. Does everyone have Excel available if we track it in that.

    GL: Does Excel have the ability to share the document and let
    everyone update it?

    [suggestions of other formats - Google docs]

    KF: We will list the success criteria and major browsers. Can
    everyone look at their favorite browsers and see where they meet our
    success criteria.
    ... I will send out a spreadsheet and ask everyone to help start
    filling it in.

    GL: Excel isn't the best format, because it doesn't allow things
    like linking to screenshots, etc.

    KF: This is just a start.

Promoting next working draft

    JS: We will need to add a column for how to access the feature, as
    we will need that to write test procedures.

    <kford> scribe: kford

    JS: The way I figure is our next draft is last working draft before
    we try to have a last call.

    W3C process tends to see a lot of people waiting for last call to
    comment.

    This can result in a 2nd last call.

    JS: Key to avoide is to try and get a lot of reviews on the draft
    before last call.
    ... Personal contact is the key.
    ... We need people from across the spectrum. Viudeo industry,
    browser industry, disablity community, AT vendors.
    ... I'd like to see us try to pull out the stops to personally get
    them to review.
    ... If possible CC me on this.
    ... Do not send to the list if you want personal contact addresses
    to be private. List is public.
    ... I'd like to try and get 200 people to look at this.
    ... In the hopes that we'd end up with 50.
    ... Can people get behind this.

    KP: Maybe not that many but yes.

    GL: How many open issues and actions do we have that could impact
    the document.
    ... Are we converging toward 0?

    <jeanne> [13]http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/

      [13] http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/

Discuss implications of HTML 5 accessibility task force survey on media
[14]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20080526_media-requirements/res
ults

      [14] 
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20080526_media-requirements/results

    <jeanne> KF: Jim asked for this survey to be added to the agenda.
    The HTML5/A11y Task Force is looking for comments on this survey.

    JS: The doc originated from the accessibility task force wanting to
    have all the reqs for video and audio in one doc.
    ... the goal was to help HTML5 understand everything in one place.
    ... The document became to extensive that folks are now looking to
    publish this for more groups.
    ... It broadened in scope and is different form what W3C might do
    but is powerful in detailing media requirements acorss multiple
    platforms.

    group looking through doc at high level.

    <jeanne> KP: The structural navigation does not seem to be robust. I
    have seen players that allow advance by sentence.

    <jeanne> KF: Does this media document show up gaps in our document?
    Or do we see anything that is widely divergent from our document,
    send a message to the list.

Survey [15]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/

      [15] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/

3.10.11

    <jeanne> [16]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/results

      [16] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/results

    <jeanne> [discussion of Greg's comments]

    <jeanne> KF: If we redefined viewport to exclude dialog boxes, could
    you accept it?

    <jeanne> GL: I'm not sure. If in my browser, I have (for example)
    large menus, thick borders, and high contrast. So if I spawn a new
    window, it has those features. But if it spawns a dialog box, does
    it makes sense to have all those features in the dialog box? The
    dialog box could end up with the full browser status bar, or menu
    bar.

    <jeanne> KF: this is for opening new windows, that if you open up a
    new window, you get the features we already set.

    <jeanne> GL: I'm not sure it wouldn't include CSS list boxes or
    multiline edit controls.

    <jeanne> JS: Could we put in a note that clarifies it?

    <jeanne> SH: If it opens a non-specialized window, then it has to
    follow the features. But the modal dialog boxes would be exluded,
    because the author typically requests modal dialog boxes for
    specific tasks. If the author doesn't, then it has to follow the
    success criteria.

    <jeanne> ... the browser generates these out of it's standard
    toolkit. The browser knows what it is putting up on the screen. And
    knows how to match it to the operating system look and feel.

    <jeanne> JS: If the author generates their own dialog box and the
    browser doesn't know it, then the browser should give it all the
    options that the user says they need.

    <jeanne> SH: If an author decides to write their own dialog boxes,
    then they may get a "dodgey" result.

    <jeanne> Note: Dialog boxes or other special purpose viewports that
    provide limited functionality, does not have to spawn all the
    user-requested features that do not apply to that special function.

    <jeanne> Note: Dialog boxes or other special purpose viewports that
    provide limited functionality, do not have to spawn all the
    user-requested features that do not apply to that special function.

    <jeanne> ACTION: JS to update 3.10.11 to accept the survey with
    Jim's edits and to add the following note to the success criteria:
    Note: Dialog boxes or other special purpose viewports that provide
    limited functionality, do not have to spawn all the user-requested
    features that do not apply to that special function. [recorded in
    [17]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-402 - Update 3.10.11 to accept the survey
    with Jim's edits and to add the following note to the success
    criteria: Note: Dialog boxes or other special purpose viewports that
    provide limited functionality, do not have to spawn all the
    user-requested features that do not apply to that special function.
    [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-06-17].

3.10.12 Indicate Viewport Position

    <jeanne>
    [18]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/results#xq12

      [18] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/results#xq12

    <jeanne> ACTION: JS to update document 3.10.12 with Marks' edits:
    3.10.12 Indicate Viewport Position: Indicate the viewport's position
    relative to rendered content (e.g., the proportion along an audio or
    video timeline, the proportion of a Web page before the current
    position ), and what proportion of the content is currently visible
    in the viewport along either vertical or horizontal dimension.
    (Level AAA) [recorded in
    [19]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-403 - Update document 3.10.12 with Marks'
    edits: 3.10.12 Indicate Viewport Position: Indicate the viewport's
    position relative to rendered content (e.g., the proportion along an
    audio or video timeline, the proportion of a Web page before the
    current position ), and what proportion of the content is currently
    visible in the viewport along either vertical or horizontal
    dimension. (Level AAA) [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-06-17].

4.7.x

    <jeanne> Has rewrites pending for next weeks survey.

5.3.6 Appropriate Language

    <jeanne> It is missing the level.

    <jeanne> KF: I think AA.

    <jeanne> GL: I don't know how hard it would be to do. I think in
    some languages, like right to left languages, it might be very hard
    to do, but I don't know.

    <jeanne> KF: This is vaguely written "react appropriately".

    <jeanne> GL: If we try not to make it so broad, that we can't figure
    out what would not be required is a problem.

    <jeanne> GL: We know that it should pass the language to a speech
    syntheser. Use an appropriate font, if available. Correctly handling
    left to right, right to left, in terms of read aloud, or caret
    browsing.

    <jeanne> SH: It seems conflated to me, that it could be language or
    linguistics.

    <jeanne> If the user agent recognizes a change to the natural
    language in rendered content, it uses the speech synthesis
    appropriate to that language, if available.

    <jeanne> SH: this part seems to be about voicing, if it should also
    be about gender appropriate.

    <jeanne> GL: I don't think there is a way to code speech gender
    changes.

    <jeanne> ... something with voice gender changes, would already have
    that necessary information coded, so the user agent wouldn't hve to
    take an special actions, except pass the information from the
    author.

    <jeanne> GL: My proposal is make this just about speech and font.
    Use voice and fonts appropriate to the changes in natural language.

    <jeanne> When rendering content use voice characteristics and fonts
    appropriate to the recognized changes in natural language.

    <jeanne> SH: is this more like 3.5.8?

    <jeanne> KF: I propose we delete the font stuff and move it into 3.8
    and make it a AA.

    <jeanne> [agreement]

    <jeanne> ACTION: JS to update the document to remove the font
    reference in 5.3.6 and move it to 3.8.x [recorded in
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-404 - Update the document to remove the
    font reference in 5.3.6 and move it to 3.8.x [on Jeanne Spellman -
    due 2010-06-17].

    <jeanne> chair: Kelly

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: JS to update 3.10.11 to accept the survey with Jim's
    edits and to add the following note to the success criteria: Note:
    Dialog boxes or other special purpose viewports that provide limited
    functionality, do not have to spawn all the user-requested features
    that do not apply to that special function. [recorded in
    [21]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: JS to update document 3.10.12 with Marks' edits:
    3.10.12 Indicate Viewport Position: Indicate the viewport's position
    relative to rendered content (e.g., the proportion along an audio or
    video timeline, the proportion of a Web page before the current
    position ), and what proportion of the content is currently visible
    in the viewport along either vertical or horizontal dimension.
    (Level AAA) [recorded in
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: JS to update the document to remove the font reference
    in 5.3.6 and move it to 3.8.x [recorded in
    [23]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes.html#action03]

    [End of minutes]
Received on Thursday, 10 June 2010 18:38:46 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Thursday, 10 June 2010 18:38:47 GMT