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Minutes: User Agent Teleconference for 1 April 2010

From: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 13:25:51 -0500
To: "'WAI-UA list'" <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
Message-ID: <012801cad1c8$c2048160$460d8420$@edu>
http://www.w3.org/2010/04/01-ua-minutes.html

User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
01 Apr 2010

See also: IRC log http://www.w3.org/2010/04/01-ua-irc 
Attendees

Present
    Jim_Allan, sharper, +0190476aaaa, Bim_Egan, +1.617.325.aabb, Jeanne,
+1.617.325.aacc, KimPatch, PatrickLauke
Regrets
    GregL, MarkH
Chair
    Jim_Allan, Kelly_Ford
Scribe
    PatrickLauke

Contents

    * Topics
         1. ACTION-325 - 3.3.2 Location in Hierarchy
         2. Discuss survey (start at 3.5.2)
         3. 3.6.1 - 3.6.4
    * Summary of Action Items

<trackbot> Date: 01 April 2010

<AllanJ> http://www.access-board.gov/sec508/refresh/draft-rule.htm

<AllanJ> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100302/

<kford> I can monitor IRC during my conflict.

<AllanJ> scribe: PatrickLauke

Judy is looking at draft response, particularly for keyboard access. 508
going to mirror pretty much WCAG and looking to include user agent stuff

Bim: 508 won't affect UK, we don't have any similar legislation
... DDA (similar to ADA) is only thing we have
ACTION-325 - 3.3.2 Location in Hierarchy

Simon: if a hierarchy is not marked up hierarchically in the HTML etc, but
is only faked via CSS, the browser needs to create a simplified hierarchy...

<AllanJ> SH: perhaps should be in 4.7 per GregL message.

AllanJ: are we happy with comment by Greg to move this to 4.7?

<AllanJ> +1

+1

<AllanJ> Bim and Kim +1

Bim: ...avoiding duplication and clearly separating the intents

Kim: happy with it as it basically says "you need to tag things properly"

can we cross-reference 3.1 to 4.7?

<jeanne> ACTION: Jeanne to move 3.3.2 to 4.7 and add a resource to
Implementing 3.3.1 that links to the new location for former 3.3.2 [recorded
in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/01-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-338 - Move 3.3.2 to 4.7 and add a resource to
Implementing 3.3.1 that links to the new location for former 3.3.2 [on
Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-04-08].

<AllanJ> PL: what is browser mechanism to make this happen. some algorithm
to create a breadcrumb

<AllanJ> SH: yes. Artist, Album, track, song name. if it makes up its own
structure, then it should share that implied structure.

<AllanJ> PL: so the UA would build its own model, from its implied structure

<AllanJ> ...simple example. broken page with bad markup, it will repair and
create its own markup.

<AllanJ> it = browser

<AllanJ> PL: this would only apply when there is no structure. Author coding
vs browser inference. Author must follow WCAG

<AllanJ> PL: authoring tool should help repair content during writing of the
code. browser should not infer meaning. too many variables

<AllanJ> Discussion of browser repair functions and author responsibilities

<AllanJ> BE: quirks mode, strange characters on the screen.

Patrick: request some time to put this back to list and flesh out some more
... danger at the moment that wording of 3.3.2 (even if moved) is too
general and may not be possible in all cases (not all the time UA can infer
a structure of visually positioned/presented items beyond knowing internally
that there's a form of visual canvas and there are things positioned here
and there, overlap a bit, etc)

AllanJ: move 3.3.2 as it is in current draft to 4.7 and we then work on
rewording in situ?

+1

Bim: +1

AllanJ +1

Simon +1

http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100302/
Discuss survey (start at 3.5.2)

<AllanJ> topic 3.5.2
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100302/results#xq11

http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20100226/#gl-interactio
n-highlight

text in pink from that to discuss

Intent of Success Criterion 3.5.2:

A low vision user needs control over what visual elements work best for
highlighting. These include foreground colors, background colors, and visual
borders.

Examples of Success Criterion 3.5.2:

A low vision wants to know where the text boxes are on a web form. The user
wants to set a thick black border around all text boxes. The user agent
provides a dialog box allowing the user to override any author settings.

Related Resources for Success Criterion 3.5.2:

To be written

Patrick: small change in example "A low vision USER wants to know..."

<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to fix Examples of SC 3.5.2 to fix small change in
example "A low vision USER wants to know..." [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/04/01-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-339 - Fix Examples of SC 3.5.2 to fix small change
in example "A low vision USER wants to know..." [on Jeanne Spellman - due
2010-04-08].

AllanJ: is this at risk of being too complex, requiring user agents to
provide a rich dialog to style all sorts of visual highlight aspects?

Bim: we want to keep at least foreground/background

AllanJ: maybe not borders, but focus

Kim +1

<AllanJ> Jeanne +1

<AllanJ> JA +1

<sharper> SH +1

I'd like to see something along the lines of: visual indication of focus

AllanJ: particularly now that web authors do things like removing outline on
focus

Bim: +1 for users having control to override web authors

Kim: don't just make it keyboard focus though

<AllanJ> discussion of keyboard focus, tab focus, mouse focus.

<AllanJ> PL: need to be more general 'visual indicator of focus' so we don't
exclude anybody

Patrick: if keyboard input focus is broad enough to mention in this text
without excluding cursor focus with mouse then fine

AllanJ/Kim: it's just called input focus

Patrick: in that case +1 for using "input focus" in the wording for 3.5.2

AllanJ: action for jeanne to change 3.5.2

<jeanne> ACTION: Jeanne to change 3.5.2 to change (c) from "borders" to
"input focus" [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/04/01-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-340 - Change 3.5.2 to change (c) from "borders" to
"input focus" [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-04-08].

AllanJ: moving to 3.6.1 - 3.6.4
... Greg had suggestions
... that's our next topic, have to review these

<AllanJ> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JanMar/0072.html

<AllanJ> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2009AprJun/0058.html
3.6.1 - 3.6.4

AllanJ: don't think we had discussion of those on list

<AllanJ> discussion of 0072 email. and conflict with iso.

<AllanJ> PL: Example 1 not relevant to UAAG, example 2 is relevant and
implemented

PL: suggest NOT implementing Greg's suggested change, as OPTION to keep
distinction in size also means that UAs need to implement the "draft mode",
which none do atm

+1

AllanJ: +1

Bim: +1

AllanJ: we don't have enough people to reach quorum
... suggest ending here and picking up next time from here

Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Jeanne to change 3.5.2 to change (c) from "borders" to "input
focus" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/01-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to fix Examples of SC 3.5.2 to fix small change in
example "A low vision USER wants to know..." [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/04/01-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Jeanne to move 3.3.2 to 4.7 and add a resource to Implementing
3.3.1 that links to the new location for former 3.3.2 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/04/01-ua-minutes.html#action01]
Received on Thursday, 1 April 2010 18:26:27 GMT

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