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Re: Support for UI Automation

From: Peter Korn <Peter.Korn@Sun.COM>
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 11:42:34 -0800
To: Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>
Cc: Henny Swan <hennys@opera.com>, David Poehlman <poehlman1@comcast.net>, w3c-wai-ua@w3.org, w3c-wai-ua-request@w3.org
Message-id: <49AED9AA.3000505@sun.com>
Henry,

"robust cross-platform accessibility API" for what purpose/use?  What 
kind of application are you writing, using what technologies, for what 
purpose(s)? 

We have in Firefox a web browser that is accessible on UNIX (using 
ATK/AT-SPI) and Windows (using iAccessible2) - by some but not all AT 
(as not all Windows AT support iAccessible2).  We have in OpenOffice.org 
an office suite that is accessible on UNIX (using ATK/AT-SPI) and 
Macintosh (using the Apple accessibility API) and on Windows (using the 
Java Accessibility API) - by some but not all AT (as only a few  Windows 
AT support the Java Access Bridge). 

In both of these cases the applications (Firefox, OpenOffice.org) had to 
do extra work to be accessible on multiple platforms because there is 
not yet a single accessibility API that works everywhere.

For Web applications, ARIA is emerging as something that might well work 
on the three major desktops.  For desktop apps, nothing is there yet.


Regards,

Peter Korn
Accessibility Architect & Principal Engineer,
Sun Microsystems, Inc.

> Henry,
>
> IAccessible2 is not cross-platform although the KDE people have 
> somehow managed to make it or something similar to it cross-platform. 
> It is a complement to MSAA. However, the combination of it and MSAA is 
> very close to Linux ATK/ATSPI. So, mapping down to it from an 
> application from one platform to the next is about 20% additional 
> work. This is what Firefox 3 does and it works very well. For us the 
> good thing is it supports WAI-ARIA as well. Freedom Scientific worked 
> with us on it to ensure it works well. NVDA, Dolphin, Freedom 
> Scientific (JAWS and Magic). So does GW Micro although there are a few 
> regressions in the latest version of Window-Eyes which we have 
> identified.
>
> I am glad to see UIA also getting support by ATVs. What is important 
> is that the level of access on Windows is improving and the available 
> API will reduce the need for reverse engineering. What I am hoping to 
> see is that the UIA strategy can duplicate the performance of an AT's 
> access to IAccessible2 as it can run in-process as they do with MSAA. 
> For screen reading this has been necessary to get the performance 
> needed out of Windows. The performance issues are not solved by merely 
> ratcheting up the CPU clock speed. Operating scheduling hits for out 
> of process access is usually the hit. There are some ways around that 
> such as data collection on the provider side, as we did on Linux, but 
> that has to be fully vetted by ATs.
>
> Rich
>
>
> Rich Schwerdtfeger
> Distinguished Engineer, SWG Accessibility Architect/Strategist
> blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/schwer
>
> Inactive hide details for Henny Swan ---02/26/2009 10:28:13 
> AM---Thanks David.Henny Swan ---02/26/2009 10:28:13 AM---Thanks David.
>
>                         *Henny Swan <hennys@opera.com>*
>                         Sent by: w3c-wai-ua-request@w3.org
>
>                         02/26/2009 10:26 AM
>
> 	
>
> To
> 	
> David Poehlman <poehlman1@comcast.net>
>
> cc
> 	
> w3c-wai-ua@w3.org
>
> Subject
> 	
> Re: Support for UI Automation
>
> 	
>
>
> Thanks David.
>
> On 26 Feb 2009, at 11:09, David Poehlman wrote:
>
> > on windows, you are better off to stick with msaa and hacks but this  
> > has more to do with software than with the web.
> >
> > On Feb 26, 2009, at 5:04 AM, Henny Swan wrote:
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Another quick question for the list if I may.
> >
> > Does anyone know how well UI Automation is supported by screen  
> > readers such as Jaws, WindowEyes and others such as NVDA? As I  
> > understand it Iaccessible2 is sort of cross platform but not fully  
> > (this I am still a bit unclear on I admit) so I am curious to know  
> > if UIA would be a better route to go down with regards to a robust  
> > cross platform accessibility API.
> >
> > Thanks in advance, Henny
> >
> > --
> > Henny Swan
> > Web Evangelist
> > Member of W3C Web Accessibility Initiative Education and Outreach  
> > Group
> > www.opera.com/developer
> >
> > Personal blog: www.iheni.com
> >
> > Stay up to date with the Web Standards Curriculum www.opera.com/wsc
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jonnie Appleseed
> > with his
> > Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
> > reducing technology's disabilities
> > one byte at a time
> >
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Henny Swan
> Web Evangelist
> Member of W3C Web Accessibility Initiative Education and Outreach Group
> www.opera.com/developer
>
> Personal blog: www.iheni.com
>
> Stay up to date with the Web Standards Curriculum www.opera.com/wsc
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Received on Wednesday, 4 March 2009 19:43:59 GMT

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