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Re: Minutes 8 January 2009

From: David Poehlman <poehlman1@comcast.net>
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 16:04:35 -0500
Message-ID: <C804E7D97D72439E87DEC9489E72DAA0@HANDS>
To: "Jim Allan" <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>, <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>

When composing a deffinition for something which you are gathering spec, it 
is necessary that the deffinition fit the spec.  For instance, if you are 
going to call AT a user agent, the AT must meet the spec or the spec must be 
written such that it takes the AT unto account.  I would think that this 
would be problematic in instances say where you try to use firefox with the 
mac os and while the
AT for the Mac with Safari might meet the spec, It would not meet the spec 
with firefox because of requirements that need to be fulfilled by firefox 
not the AT.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Allan" <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
To: <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 2:42 PM
Subject: Minutes 8 January 2009



http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-ua-minutes.html

08 Jan 2009

Agenda

See also: IRC log
Attendees

Present
    Kelly, Jim, Jeanne, Alan, Judy, Mark
Regrets
    Simon
Chair
    Jim Allan
Scribe
    jeanne

Contents

    * Topics
         1. Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?
         2. Complete Review Survey Items
         3. Survey item 1 - order of sections in Intro
         4. Review Overview for inclusion in draft
         5. Survey on Layers of Guidance
         6. Open Action Items
    * Summary of Action Items





<AllanJ> title: UAWG Telecon

<KFord> zakim [microsoft] is kford

<Alan> I will have to leave in about 30 minutes. Other committments.

<AllanJ> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791

http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/

<AllanJ> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/
Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?
Complete Review Survey Items

http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/

request for a separate announcement for surveys.

<AllanJ> JB: Definition should be first.

JB: Requests that the email subject is Survey: Fill Out for [date]
Survey item 1 - order of sections in Intro

<JR> Introduction

<JR> Definition of authoring tool

<JR> Components of Web Accessibility

<JR> Organization of the ATAG 2.0 Document

<JR> Levels of Conformance

<JR> Relationship to the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG)

KF: the definition needs to go at the beginning, not at the end.

<JR> NOTE: Levels of confromance removed from ATAG2 intro

http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-WCAG20-20081211/#intro

<AllanJ> MH: likes order of ATAG from JR

WCAG puts their definition last.

JA: There is no precedent, so we can choose whichever order we want.

Resolved: The definition of User agent will go after the Overview.

JB: The definition of User Agent could be a narrative in the beginning to
socially get people into the document.
... but that would give two different definitions, which could be a problem.
\

MH: Could give a link to the more formal definition.

s/\a problem.\a problem.

JA: Let's take time to work on a narrative definition.

<JR> user agent [WCAG 2.0, UAAG 2.0]

<JR> Any software that retrieves and presents Web content for end users.
Examples include Web browsers, media players, plug-ins, and other programs
including assistive technologies, that help in retrieving, rendering and
interacting with Web content.

JB: Give a 10 minute time limit.

MH: The definition that Jan put up doesn't include anything about
documentation.

JA: it doesn't include gmail, rrsagents and other web applications.

KF: Can you add in the last section that includes web content and web
applications.

<Alan> web apps run within web browsers, but so do media players, etc.

<Alan> maybe group web apps with assistive technologies.

JA: If we change our definition of user agent, will that cause problems for
the other documents.

JB: If the definition we have isn't accurate, we need to see how out of sync
it is with WCAG. Since WCAG is in final recommendation, that is fixed.

<AllanJ> JR: UAAG1 definition part 1 - The software and documentation
components that together, conform to the requirements of this document. This
is the most common use of the term in this document and is the usage in the
guidelines.

JB: ATAG doesn't say anything about web based or non-web based in the
definition.

<AllanJ> JR: recommend drop UAAG1 part 1, and only use part 2 which aligns
with ATAG and WCAG

KF: It is ok that we don't say web applications, because this is a basic
definition and it gives people a sense of the ballpark we are talking about
without leaving anything out that is critical.

<AllanJ> =1

JR: we can back it up with additional discussion that gives the scope
without making it part of the normative section.

jeanne agrees to dropping part 1

No objections and individual agreement.

<AllanJ> Proposed: Any software that retrieves and presents Web content for
end users. Examples include Web browsers, media players, plug-ins, and other
programs including assistive technologies, that help in retrieving,
rendering and interacting with Web content.

proposed to add as the first sentence: A user agent is any software that
retrieves and presents Web content for end users. Examples include Web
browsers, media players, plug-ins, and other programs including assistive
technologies, that help in retrieving, rendering and interacting with Web
content.

<AllanJ>
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2008/WD-UAAG20-20081210/Introduction-Proposal200812
23.html

A user agent is any software that retrieves and presents Web content for end
users. Examples include Web browsers, media players, plug-ins, and other
programs including assistive technologies, that help in retrieving,
rendering and interacting with Web content. This document specifies
requirements that, if satisfied by user agent developers, will lower
barriers to accessibility.

<KFord> sounds good to me.

<AllanJ> +1

<AllanJ> JR: would like an H3 section on definition

<AllanJ> JS: so it would be Into, Overview, Layers, ..., then Definition

<AllanJ> JR: need to see how it all flows

<AllanJ> MH: would link to definition go to H# section or glossary

<AllanJ> JA: glossary

http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2008/WD-UAAG20-20081210/Introduction-Proposal200901
08.html

<AllanJ> MH: we may have 3 instances of the definition that all say the same
Introduction, H3, and glossary

JR: Whatever we do, ATAG should do the same thing.

JB: We also have to look at the publishing schedule.

<AllanJ> JB: timing, ATAG and UAAG should do the same thing, but not
critical until end stages

<scribe> ACTION: jeanne to update the document Introduction with the
definition and introductory paragraph [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-108 - Update the document Introduction with the
definition and introductory paragraph [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-01-15].
Review Overview for inclusion in draft

<AllanJ> reviewed comments: fine piece of work. I understand the need for
device independence. I was wanting some mention of platform issues (which
related to this). Accessibility changes with disability, but also with
environment, platform, bandwidth etc. UAAG is attempting to bridge these.
Not sure what spatial and temporal independence means.

JS: The overview section comes from the F2F where different sentences were
flagged to go into a conceptual overview. I had an action item to write one
sentence, but realized that we needed to pull the whole section together.
The sentences are pasted together with some wordsmithing to improve the
flow.

JR: the bullet points do not map to our document, that could cause
confusion.

JS: We could delete the sentence and bullets.

JB: Why don't we use our Principles there?

KF: This goal is achieved by using: list the principles.

This goal is achieved by constructing a user agent the complies with the
following principles:

JR: Some users may have more than one disability... This isn't an overview,
it is an answer to the question, "why are there so many options". The same
thing with security. It is an answer to the question: What about security?

<AllanJ> JB: security. why in intro. should be in guidelines.

<AllanJ> JS: at F2F we agreed to keep these in the intro

<JR> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#new-terms

JB: There are issues that do seem to deserve their own heading.

<AllanJ> JR: if we need to call out perhaps a new section

KF: This is better than what we had, so I propose we go ahead with this
intro for this publication and look at it again.

JR: WCAG put a note that the Working Group is still working on it and
interested in feedback.

<AllanJ> KF: add disclaimer and request feedback to make document more
consumable

KF: We could put it in the Status section: The Working Group is revising the
Introduction and is looking for feedback that the issues are introduced in a
manner that is clear.

JB: We can do it in the Status section and also add an Editor's Note.

<scribe> ACTION: JS top update the Status section and the announcements to
add a request for feedback on the Introduction and add an Editor's Note that
it is still being revised. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-109 - Top update the Status section and the
announcements to add a request for feedback on the Introduction and add an
Editor's Note that it is still being revised. [on Jeanne Spellman - due
2009-01-15].

JR: Add: the group is still looking for the best place to place this
information.

JB: We should look at the note system in the WCAG draft. It interrupts
people's flow of reading it.
... If we have signicant concerns about including it without the disclaimer,
then we should put it in.

JR: Add the disclaimer just for the security paragraph.
Survey on Layers of Guidance

JA: The editor's note asks if there will be advisory techniques.

<JR> JR: Think this part is too much: ", and documented common failures with
examples, resource links and code."

JR: there will be advisory techniques, I think.

JA: We would have difficulty providing examples and code.

MH: It is a can of worms, take it out.

KF. It needs to go.

In order to meet the varying needs of the different audiences using UAAG,
several layers of guidance are provided including overall principles,
general guidelines, testable success criteria and a rich collection of
sufficient techniques, resource links and code.

In order to meet the varying needs of the different audiences using UAAG,
several layers of guidance are provided including overall principles,
general guidelines, testable success criteria and a rich collection of
sufficient techniques, and resource links.

In order to meet the varying needs of the different audiences using UAAG,
several layers of guidance are provided including overall principles,
general guidelines, testable success criteria, a rich collection of
sufficient techniques, and resource links.

JA: Fix spelling: Two principle have been added - should be principles.

MH: needs a comma in the last paragraph between cognitive and language.

<AllanJ> +1

<scribe> ACTION: js to edit Layers of Guidance with the notes above.
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<scribe> ACTION: JS to make a list of items that are in multiple places so
that as we edit the document, all locations are updated. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-ua-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-111 - Make a list of items that are in multiple
places so that as we edit the document, all locations are updated. [on
Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-01-15].
Open Action Items

JA: review the open actions and figure out how we can get them done, or say
that they won't be done.

JB: I recommend scheduling a chunk of time on a weekly basis to work on the
action items so they can be sent to Jeanne in time for the survey.

JA: What is the best way to coordinate with EO?

JB: THe best thing is for Judy to work with Shawn. Most groups do not have
regular representation on EO.
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to update the document Introduction with the definition
and introductory paragraph [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: js to edit Layers of Guidance with the notes above. [recorded
in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to make a list of items that are in multiple places so that
as we edit the document, all locations are updated. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-ua-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: JS top update the Status section and the announcements to add
a request for feedback on the Introduction and add an Editor's Note that it
is still being revised. [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-ua-minutes.html#action02]

[End of minutes]

Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
Received on Friday, 9 January 2009 21:05:19 GMT

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