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UAAG Teleconference Minutes 9 April 2009

From: Kelly Ford <kford@windows.microsoft.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 11:36:28 -0700
To: "w3c-wai-ua@w3.org" <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
Message-ID: <2828BDE8DC61004E8104C78E82A0B39715B9BD68DD@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com>
- DRAFT -
User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
09 Apr 2009

Agenda<http://www.w3.org/2009/04/09-ua-agenda.rdf>

See also: IRC log<http://www.w3.org/2009/04/09-ua-irc>

Attendees
Present
kford, Jeanne, JR, allanj, +1.203.091.aaaa, Mark_Hakkinen, Mark, Jan, Kelly, Henny
Regrets
Simon, Harper
Chair
Jim_Allan
Scribe
kford, allanj
Contents

 *   Topics<http://www.w3.org/2009/04/09-ua-minutes.html#agenda>
 *   Summary of Action Items<http://www.w3.org/2009/04/09-ua-minutes.html#ActionSummary>

________________________________





<trackbot> Date: 09 April 2009

<kford> Scribe: kford

<AllanJ> scribe: allanj

KF: review ALT CG call
... time spent on @labeledby
... reviewed UA concerns
... feedback - situations where ALT does not work
... - @labeledby and other new stuff could give richer feedback than @alt to users
... need more documentation on how the options should work
... proposal as written doesn't cover machine generated @alt
... inclined to support current proposal
... multiple ways to provide short replacement
... recommend UAWG support
... proposal is right long term proposal, because

- must have some short description

- technology moves forward

<kford> JR: To clarify, accessibility is only in WCAG. Your code would still be valid.

<kford> JR: That is accessibility supported.

KF: that's OK, can have valid HTML but still be inaccessible for other reasons
... if author goes beyond @alt and uses @labeledby understands accessibility

<mhakkinen> not able to listen to the call, but will comment that if the alt proposal goes forward, it needs to at least comment on some of the concerns and that best practices and techniques should address implications for thin device browsers (that dont support ARIA) and older tech.

<kford> Glossary Proposal - equivalent (for content)

<kford> group needs to resolve issues, tabling for this week.

<kford> Glossary Proposal - events and scripting, event handler, event type

<kford> 4 accepts, one change to clean up last sentence.

<kford> Any objections to change?

<kford> None heard.

proposed: events and scripting, event handler, event type

User agents often perform a task when an event having a particular "event type" occurs, including user interface events, changes to content, loading of content, and requests from the operating environment. Some markup languages allow authors to specify that a script, called an event handler, be executed when an event of a given type occurs. An event handler is explicitly associated with an...

scribe: element through scripting, markup or the DOM.

<kford> Glossary Proposal - focus, content focus, user interface focus, current focus

<jeanne2> ACTION: JS to update glossary definition of equivalent (for content) with the edits Mark proposed. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/09-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-171 - Update glossary definition of equivalent (for content) with the edits Mark proposed. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-04-16].

Resolved: new definition: events and scripting, event handler, event type

User agents often perform a task when an event having a particular "event type" occurs, including user interface events, changes to content, loading of content, and requests from the operating environment. Some markup languages allow authors to specify that a script, called an event handler, be executed when an event of a given type occurs. An event handler is explicitly associated with an...

scribe: element through scripting, markup or the DOM.

<kford> Glossary Proposal - explicit user request

<kford> Some discussion around MH changes of I do not like the term mistake in this content. Assigning blame to the user for poor UI or accessibility induced errors should be avoided.

<kford> Proposed:

<kford> Note: Users can make errors when interacting with the user agent. For example, a user may inadvertently respond "yes" to a prompt instead of "no." In this

<kford> document, this type of error is still considered an explicit user request.

<kford> group likes changes.

<kford> discussion of kford comment on why rendered content is excluded.

<mhakkinen> if mistake is gone, I like it too.

<kford> kford: I think we should delete the rendered content.

<kford> Some disucssion from JR on some media players.

<kford> JR: would could throw some of our recognized language in this definition.

explicit user request

Any user interaction by the user through the user agent user interface, the focus, or the selection. User requests are made, for example, through user agent user interface controls and keyboard bindings.

Some examples of explicit user requests include when the user selects "New viewport," responds "yes" to a prompt in the user agent's user interface, configures the user agent to behave in a certain way, or changes the selection or focus with the keyboard or pointing device. Note: Users can make errors when interacting with the user agent. For example, a user may inadvertently respond "yes"...

scribe: to a prompt instead of "no." In this document, this type of error is still considered an explicit user request.

<kford> JA: Any issues with this definition?

<kford> None heard.

Resolved: Note: Users can make errors when interacting with the user agent. For example, a user may inadvertently respond "yes" to a prompt instead of "no." In this document, this type of error is still considered an explicit user request.

<mhakkinen> ok with me

Resolved: explicit user request

Any user interaction by the user through the user agent user interface, the focus, or the selection. User requests are made, for example, through user agent user interface controls and keyboard bindings.

Some examples of explicit user requests include when the user selects "New viewport," responds "yes" to a prompt in the user agent's user interface, configures the user agent to behave in a certain way, or changes the selection or focus with the keyboard or pointing device. Note: Users can make errors when interacting with the user agent. For example, a user may inadvertently respond "yes"...

scribe: to a prompt instead of "no." In this document, this type of error is still considered an explicit user request.

<jeanne> ACTION: JS to update glossary with new definition of "explicit user request". [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/09-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-172 - Update glossary with new definition of "explicit user request". [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-04-16].

<kford> Glossary Proposal - focus, content focus, user interface focus, current focus

<kford> JR: there is a lot going on here. A lot is talking about how you do focus.

<kford> JA: Seems like 1,2 and 3 are defining. And then other text that explains a lot and seems more like a technique document.

<kford> ACTION: JA clean up focus definition. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/09-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-173 - Clean up focus definition. [on Jim Allan - due 2009-04-16].

<kford> ACTION: KFord review current draft to ensure caret concepts are covered. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/09-ua-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - KFord

<kford> ACTION: KF review current draft to see if caret concepts are covered. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/09-ua-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-174 - Review current draft to see if caret concepts are covered. [on Kelly Ford - due 2009-04-16].

<kford> Glossary Proposal - graphical

<kford> Resolved: graphical

<kford> Information (including text, colors, graphics, images, and animations) rendered for visual consumption.

<kford> Glossary Proposal - highlight

<jeanne> ACTION: JS to update the definition of graphical with the new definition [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/09-ua-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-175 - Update the definition of graphical with the new definition [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-04-16].

resolved: highlight

To emphasize through the user interface. For example, user agents highlight which content is selected or focused. Graphical highlight mechanisms include dotted boxes, underlining, and reverse video. Synthesized speech highlight mechanisms include alterations of voice pitch and volume ("speech prosody").

<kford> Glossary Proposal - image

any objections to: image

Pictorial content that is not moving. See also the definition of animation.

Resolved: image

Pictorial content that is not moving. See also the definition of animation.

<jeanne> ACTION: JS to update the glossary with definition of "highlight" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/09-ua-minutes.html#action07]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-176 - Update the glossary with definition of "highlight" [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-04-16].

<jeanne> ACTION: JS to update glossary with the definition of "image" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/09-ua-minutes.html#action08]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-177 - Update glossary with the definition of "image" [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-04-16].

<kford> Glossary Proposal - important elements

<kford> MH: Can we go back to image.

<kford> MH: Things can change in an image that's not moving. An example is walk don't walk in a light.

Pictorial content that is static (i.e.not moving or changing). See also the definition of animation.

Resolved: Image

Pictorial content that is static (i.e.not moving or changing). See also the definition of animation.

<kford> Group likes new definition.

<jeanne> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090223/results#xq25

<kford> Back to important elements.

<kford> Had no proposal in survey.

<kford> JA: This was about large important structural elements i.e. headings and such that AT supports today.

<kford> MH: This should be about navigationally significant elements.

<mhakkinen> elements significant for navigation

<kford> JA: Opera has had this for a while. What do you call it.

<kford> HS: talked about Opera navigate by heading.

<kford> HS: I will ask around how we talk about this at Opera.

<kford> MH: Going back historically to what we should have done in PW Webspeak, user had predefined structure points like headings or I want a class of items like divs.

<kford> MH: I think ARIA does some of this.

KF: navigation by heading, shouldn't be up to AT alone. ATs create a unique viewport. UA may also need to provide this navigation.
... this is a tough challenge
... AT should also do this thing.
... if 'you' are creating a viewport, 'you' need to understand the requirements
... ARIA has concept of landmarks (structurally significant), author, UA, or AT could provide keybinding
... JAWS provided navigation by landmark

<kford> MH reads list of ARIA landmarks.

<kford> JA: This keyboard navigation is important for the basic keyboard user.

<kford> JA: You shouldn't need a screen reader.

KF: very difficult for UA to know what the AT is doing to the viewport.
... viewport navigation needs to be improved.
... interaction problems between UA and AT
... if UA provides heading navigation, as does AT, but AT user turns off heading navigation
... what should UA do if the move to next heading keystroke is hit

MH: discusses Webspeak model of navigation configuration

KF: Opera has impressive keyboard navigation model.

<kford> JA: This is similar to speech and acronym processing.

<kford> JA: Author could define one thing, screen reader has a second and speech synthesizer could have a third.

<kford> Issue: Think about interactions between user agents and AT around viewport creation and responsibilities.

<trackbot> Created ISSUE-35 - Think about interactions between user agents and AT around viewport creation and responsibilities. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/35/edit .

<kford> JA: Guideline 4.7.2 talks about structured navigation.

<kford> JA: It is currently at AAA. I'm not sure I like it at that level.

<jeanne> ACTION: JS to edit 4.7.2 to add an editor's note to review the definition of "important elements" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/09-ua-minutes.html#action09]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-178 - Edit 4.7.2 to add an editor's note to review the definition of "important elements" [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-04-16].

Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: JA clean up focus definition. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/09-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to edit 4.7.2 to add an editor's note to review the definition of "important elements" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/09-ua-minutes.html#action09]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to update glossary definition of equivalent (for content) with the edits Mark proposed. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/09-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to update glossary with new definition of "explicit user request". [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/09-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to update glossary with the definition of "image" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/09-ua-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to update the definition of graphical with the new definition [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/09-ua-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to update the glossary with definition of "highlight" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/09-ua-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: KF review current draft to see if caret concepts are covered. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/09-ua-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: KFord review current draft to ensure caret concepts are covered. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/09-ua-minutes.html#action04]

[End of minutes]
Received on Thursday, 9 April 2009 18:37:14 GMT

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