Minutes

IRC Log

Action Items
ACTION: JS to delete 3.3.1 from the draft because it is included in 2.1.2
ACTION: js to update draft to assign level A to all SC in 2.1
ACTION: JS to update draft with new wording for 3.3.2 Access Relationships: Provide access to explicitly-defined relationships based on the user's position in content (e.g., show form control's label, show label's form control, show a cell's table headers, etc.). (Level A)

Text of Minutes
W3C
- DRAFT -
User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
11 Dec 2008

Agenda

See also: IRC log
Attendees

Present
    Allan_James, Cantor, Cantor_Alan, Harper_Simon, Jeanne_Spellman, Jim_Allan, Judy, KFord, Spellman_Jeanne, [Microsoft], sharper, Ford_Kelly
Regrets
    Brewer_Judy, Richards_Jan, Hakkinen_Mark
Chair
    Allan_James
Scribe
    Harper_Simon, Allan_Jim

Contents

    * Topics
         1. Winter Holiday meetings.
         2. Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?
         3. Review Survey Items http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/
         4. Proposed Rewording of 3.3.1
         5. Proposed Rewording of 3.3.2
         6. Proposed definition for "non-Web-based"
    * Summary of Action Items

 

 

<trackbot> Date: 11 December 2008

<sharper> scribe: Harper_Simon

<sharper> ScribeNick: sharper

<scribe> meeting: User Agent Working Group Telecon: 11 Dec 2008

Call-in: Zakim bridge at: +1-617-761-6200, code 82941# for UK use

44-117-370-6152
Winter Holiday meetings.

AllanJ: Proposes that we have 1 more meeting before Christmas, skipping 2 weeks and pick up on 08th Jan 2008.

RESOLUTION: Next meeting 18th Dec 2008, Meeting after 08th Jan 2009.
Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?

<Alan> Hey!
Review Survey Items http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/
Proposed Rewording of 3.3.1

Old: 3.3.1 Relationships Available Programmatically: Make explicitly-defined relationships in the content (e.g., labeled_by, table_header_for, etc.) available programmatically. (Level A)

Proposed: Text is fine but should be moved to Principle 2.

<jeanne> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20081209/

Results: 2 Accept, 2 Neutral (will accept), 1 need discussion (Richards_Jan: I think maybe this is a technique of 2.1.2)

<AllanJ> 3.3.1 Relationships Available Programmatically: Make explicitly-defined relationships in the content (e.g., labeled_by, table_header_for, etc.) available programmatically. (Level A)

AllanJ: Sounds the same

<AllanJ> 2.1.2 Name, Role, State, Value, Description: For all user interface components including the user interface and rendered content, make available the name, role, state, value, and description via an accessibility platform architecture.

AllanJ: could live with 3.3.1 being removed and keeping 2.1.2

Jeanne: agree (2.1.2 more specific) 3.3.1 (very HTML'y)

All: General Discussion regarding roles - covered by 2.1.2 (role would include relationship information ), something separate is not required, need techniques.

RESOLUTION: 3.3.1 to be removed as it is part of 2.1.2

<jeanne> ACTION: JS to delete 3.3.1 from the draft because it is included in 2.1.2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/11-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-100 - Delete 3.3.1 from the draft because it is included in 2.1.2 [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-12-18].
Proposed Rewording of 3.3.2

existing: 3.3.2 Access Relationships: The user can access information from explicitly-defined relationships in the content (e.g., what is form control's label?, what is label's form control?, what is cell's table header?, etc.). (Level A)

proposed: 3.3.2 Access Relationships: The user can access information from explicitly-defined relationships in the content using a globally defined key combination and based on the current focus of the interface.

results: 2 accept, 1 recommend change (AllanJ - Is this (globally defined key combination) another setting for the user? or, can the UA just provide a key. Redefining keys is covered else where. "based on the current focus" - we need a different term. Elements that can receive focus are limited (links, form controls, etc.) information in a table cell generally does not receive focus. I think the original language just needs a tweak, and leave the how to accompl

<proposed>

3.3.2 Access Relationships: Provide the user access to explicitly-defined relationships in the content (e.g., what is form control's label?, what is label's form control?, what are a cell's table headers?, etc.). (Level A)

</proposed>), 2 needs more discussion (Richards_Jan - would like at least one example. I'm wondering what is added by the key combo bit...keyboard access is handled elsewhere. / Ford_Kelly - do not understand the rewording, in particular the part about a globally defined key combination. Are you saying all browsers should have some hotkey to determine form label or exactly what are you asking a vendor to do here?)

AllanJ: Needs Discussion

<AllanJ> sh: wasn't thinking about the programattic focus...more where the user is 'looking at' - cursor browsing.

<AllanJ> SH: current wording doesn't specify which relationships...could be all spoken at once.

<jeanne> http://www.w3.org/ has it in the News column. Top article. Let me know if you can't find it. I'll bring it to the web site team.

<AllanJ> KF: you want the browser to provide the access to relationships without the need of assistive technology

<AllanJ> SH: want to specify it is based on user view point...specific element

<AllanJ> JA: use case of TV guide

<AllanJ> KF: can think of many examples where screenreader users have better access. do all users need this level of access.

All: General Discussion around the global key combination aspects and the term 'focus'.

AllanJ: Wordsmithing in action

<AllanJ> 3.3.2 Access Relationships: The user can access information from explicitly-defined relationships in the content based on users point-of-regard (e.g., what is form control's label?, what is label's form control?, what is cell's table header?, etc.). (Level A)

<AllanJ> better?? 3.3.2 Access Relationships: Based on the users point-of-regard, provide the user access to explicitly-defined relationships in the content (e.g., what is form control's label?, what is label's form control?, what are a cell's table headers?, etc.). (Level A)

All: Use AllanJ's first version, with additional examples to clarify, and techniques in support.

<AllanJ> > 3.3.2 Access Relationships: The user can access information from explicitly-defined relationships in the content based on users point-of-regard (e.g., show form control's label?, show label's form control?, show a cell's table header?, etc.). (Level A)

<AllanJ> 3.3.2 Access Relationships: Based on the user's point-of-regard, provide the user access information from explicitly-defined relationships in the content based on users point-of-regard (e.g., show form control's label, show label's form control, show a cell's table header, etc.). (Level A)

<AllanJ> KF: problem with "point of regard"

<AllanJ> 3.3.2 Access Relationships: Based on the user's position in content, provide the user access information from explicitly-defined relationships in the content based on users point-of-regard (e.g., show form control's label, show label's form control, show a cell's table header, etc.). (Level A)

<AllanJ> 3.3.2 Access Relationships: Based on the user's position in content, provide the user access to explicitly-defined relationships in the content based (e.g., show form control's label, show label's form control, show a cell's table header, etc.). (Level A)

<AllanJ> 3.3.2 Access Relationships: Provide access to explicitly-defined relationships based on the user's position in content (e.g., show form control's label, show label's form control, show a cell's table headers, etc.). (Level A)

RESOLUTION: Adopt this last version (19:06)

<jeanne> ACTION: JS to update draft with new wording for 3.3.2 Access Relationships: Provide access to explicitly-defined relationships based on the user's position in content (e.g., show form control's label, show label's form control, show a cell's table headers, etc.). (Level A) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/11-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-101 - Update draft with new wording for 3.3.2 Access Relationships: Provide access to explicitly-defined relationships based on the user's position in content (e.g., show form control's label, show label's form control, show a cell's table headers, etc.). (Level A) [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-12-18].
Proposed definition for "non-Web-based"

proposed: user agent user interface (non-Web-Based) Any components of a user agent user interface that runs directly on a non-user agent platform such as Windows, MacOS, Java Virtual Machine, etc. Base browsers are always non-Web-Based.

results: 1 Accept / 4 Needs Discussion

Poehlman_David: what does this mean?

Harper_Simon: How does this phrasing handle say XUI or Components generated from the content? In Mozilla content such as the fragment below rendered as part of the 'chrome' menu.

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"

"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">

<HTML>

<HEAD>

<TITLE> Chapter 2</TITLE>

<LINK rel="Index" href="../index.html">

<LINK rel="Next" href="Chapter3.html">

<LINK rel="Prev" href="Chapter1.html">

</HEAD>

scribe: the rest of the document...

Allan_Jim: What??? lack of punctuation and line breaks make parsing very difficult....after much brain sweating. Ah Ha! It makes sense. It is any component of the UA interface that runs directly on the native operating system. User agents run on top of operating systems (Windows, unix, whatever is in phones, etc.) <proposed>User-Agent user interface (non-Web-Based): Any components of a user agent user interface that runs directly on an operating system, such as

Ford_Kelly: What happens when the UI is generated from web content? For example an extension to the browser frame that is based on HTML or another web-based content source?

<scribe> scribe: Allan_Jim

<scribe> ScribeNick: AllanJ

<jeanne> ACTION: js to update draft to assign level A to all SC in 2.1 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/11-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-102 - Update draft to assign level A to all SC in 2.1 [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-12-18].
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: JS to delete 3.3.1 from the draft because it is included in 2.1.2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/11-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: js to update draft to assign level A to all SC in 2.1 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/11-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to update draft with new wording for 3.3.2 Access Relationships: Provide access to explicitly-defined relationships based on the user's position in content (e.g., show form control's label, show label's form control, show a cell's table headers, etc.). (Level A) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/11-ua-minutes.html#action02]
 
[End of minutes]