Minutes
IRC Log
Action Items
ACTION: JS to delete 3.3.1 from the draft because it is included
in 2.1.2
ACTION: js to update draft to assign level A to all SC in 2.1
ACTION: JS to update draft with new wording for 3.3.2 Access
Relationships: Provide access to explicitly-defined relationships based
on the user's position in content (e.g., show form control's label,
show label's form control, show a cell's table headers, etc.). (Level
A)
Text of Minutes
W3C
- DRAFT -
User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
11 Dec 2008
Agenda
See also: IRC log
Attendees
Present
Allan_James, Cantor, Cantor_Alan, Harper_Simon, Jeanne_Spellman,
Jim_Allan, Judy, KFord, Spellman_Jeanne, [Microsoft], sharper,
Ford_Kelly
Regrets
Brewer_Judy, Richards_Jan, Hakkinen_Mark
Chair
Allan_James
Scribe
Harper_Simon, Allan_Jim
Contents
* Topics
1. Winter Holiday meetings.
2. Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?
3. Review Survey Items http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/
4. Proposed Rewording of 3.3.1
5. Proposed Rewording of 3.3.2
6. Proposed definition for "non-Web-based"
* Summary of Action Items
<trackbot> Date: 11 December 2008
<sharper> scribe: Harper_Simon
<sharper> ScribeNick: sharper
<scribe> meeting: User Agent Working Group Telecon: 11 Dec 2008
Call-in: Zakim bridge at: +1-617-761-6200, code 82941# for UK use
44-117-370-6152
Winter Holiday meetings.
AllanJ: Proposes that we have 1 more meeting before Christmas, skipping
2 weeks and pick up on 08th Jan 2008.
RESOLUTION: Next meeting 18th Dec 2008, Meeting after 08th Jan 2009.
Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?
<Alan> Hey!
Review Survey Items http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/
Proposed Rewording of 3.3.1
Old: 3.3.1 Relationships Available Programmatically: Make
explicitly-defined relationships in the content (e.g., labeled_by,
table_header_for, etc.) available programmatically. (Level A)
Proposed: Text is fine but should be moved to Principle 2.
<jeanne> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20081209/
Results: 2 Accept, 2 Neutral (will accept), 1 need discussion
(Richards_Jan: I think maybe this is a technique of 2.1.2)
<AllanJ> 3.3.1 Relationships Available Programmatically: Make
explicitly-defined relationships in the content (e.g., labeled_by,
table_header_for, etc.) available programmatically. (Level A)
AllanJ: Sounds the same
<AllanJ> 2.1.2 Name, Role, State, Value, Description: For all
user interface components including the user interface and rendered
content, make available the name, role, state, value, and description
via an accessibility platform architecture.
AllanJ: could live with 3.3.1 being removed and keeping 2.1.2
Jeanne: agree (2.1.2 more specific) 3.3.1 (very HTML'y)
All: General Discussion regarding roles - covered by 2.1.2 (role would
include relationship information ), something separate is not required,
need techniques.
RESOLUTION: 3.3.1 to be removed as it is part of 2.1.2
<jeanne> ACTION: JS to delete 3.3.1 from the draft because it is
included in 2.1.2 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2008/12/11-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-100 - Delete 3.3.1 from the draft
because it is included in 2.1.2 [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-12-18].
Proposed Rewording of 3.3.2
existing: 3.3.2 Access Relationships: The user can access information
from explicitly-defined relationships in the content (e.g., what is
form control's label?, what is label's form control?, what is cell's
table header?, etc.). (Level A)
proposed: 3.3.2 Access Relationships: The user can access information
from explicitly-defined relationships in the content using a globally
defined key combination and based on the current focus of the interface.
results: 2 accept, 1 recommend change (AllanJ - Is this (globally
defined key combination) another setting for the user? or, can the UA
just provide a key. Redefining keys is covered else where. "based on
the current focus" - we need a different term. Elements that can
receive focus are limited (links, form controls, etc.) information in a
table cell generally does not receive focus. I think the original
language just needs a tweak, and leave the how to accompl
<proposed>
3.3.2 Access Relationships: Provide the user access to
explicitly-defined relationships in the content (e.g., what is form
control's label?, what is label's form control?, what are a cell's
table headers?, etc.). (Level A)
</proposed>), 2 needs more discussion (Richards_Jan - would like
at least one example. I'm wondering what is added by the key combo
bit...keyboard access is handled elsewhere. / Ford_Kelly - do not
understand the rewording, in particular the part about a globally
defined key combination. Are you saying all browsers should have some
hotkey to determine form label or exactly what are you asking a vendor
to do here?)
AllanJ: Needs Discussion
<AllanJ> sh: wasn't thinking about the programattic focus...more
where the user is 'looking at' - cursor browsing.
<AllanJ> SH: current wording doesn't specify which
relationships...could be all spoken at once.
<jeanne> http://www.w3.org/ has it in the News column. Top
article. Let me know if you can't find it. I'll bring it to the web
site team.
<AllanJ> KF: you want the browser to provide the access to
relationships without the need of assistive technology
<AllanJ> SH: want to specify it is based on user view
point...specific element
<AllanJ> JA: use case of TV guide
<AllanJ> KF: can think of many examples where screenreader users
have better access. do all users need this level of access.
All: General Discussion around the global key combination aspects and
the term 'focus'.
AllanJ: Wordsmithing in action
<AllanJ> 3.3.2 Access Relationships: The user can access
information from explicitly-defined relationships in the content based
on users point-of-regard (e.g., what is form control's label?, what is
label's form control?, what is cell's table header?, etc.). (Level A)
<AllanJ> better?? 3.3.2 Access Relationships: Based on the users
point-of-regard, provide the user access to explicitly-defined
relationships in the content (e.g., what is form control's label?, what
is label's form control?, what are a cell's table headers?, etc.).
(Level A)
All: Use AllanJ's first version, with additional examples to clarify,
and techniques in support.
<AllanJ> > 3.3.2 Access Relationships: The user can access
information from explicitly-defined relationships in the content based
on users point-of-regard (e.g., show form control's label?, show
label's form control?, show a cell's table header?, etc.). (Level A)
<AllanJ> 3.3.2 Access Relationships: Based on the user's
point-of-regard, provide the user access information from
explicitly-defined relationships in the content based on users
point-of-regard (e.g., show form control's label, show label's form
control, show a cell's table header, etc.). (Level A)
<AllanJ> KF: problem with "point of regard"
<AllanJ> 3.3.2 Access Relationships: Based on the user's position
in content, provide the user access information from explicitly-defined
relationships in the content based on users point-of-regard (e.g., show
form control's label, show label's form control, show a cell's table
header, etc.). (Level A)
<AllanJ> 3.3.2 Access Relationships: Based on the user's position
in content, provide the user access to explicitly-defined relationships
in the content based (e.g., show form control's label, show label's
form control, show a cell's table header, etc.). (Level A)
<AllanJ> 3.3.2 Access Relationships: Provide access to
explicitly-defined relationships based on the user's position in
content (e.g., show form control's label, show label's form control,
show a cell's table headers, etc.). (Level A)
RESOLUTION: Adopt this last version (19:06)
<jeanne> ACTION: JS to update draft with new wording for 3.3.2
Access Relationships: Provide access to explicitly-defined
relationships based on the user's position in content (e.g., show form
control's label, show label's form control, show a cell's table
headers, etc.). (Level A) [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2008/12/11-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-101 - Update draft with new wording for
3.3.2 Access Relationships: Provide access to explicitly-defined
relationships based on the user's position in content (e.g., show form
control's label, show label's form control, show a cell's table
headers, etc.). (Level A) [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-12-18].
Proposed definition for "non-Web-based"
proposed: user agent user interface (non-Web-Based) Any components of a
user agent user interface that runs directly on a non-user agent
platform such as Windows, MacOS, Java Virtual Machine, etc. Base
browsers are always non-Web-Based.
results: 1 Accept / 4 Needs Discussion
Poehlman_David: what does this mean?
Harper_Simon: How does this phrasing handle say XUI or Components
generated from the content? In Mozilla content such as the fragment
below rendered as part of the 'chrome' menu.
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE> Chapter 2</TITLE>
<LINK rel="Index" href="../index.html">
<LINK rel="Next" href="Chapter3.html">
<LINK rel="Prev" href="Chapter1.html">
</HEAD>
scribe: the rest of the document...
Allan_Jim: What??? lack of punctuation and line breaks make parsing
very difficult....after much brain sweating. Ah Ha! It makes sense. It
is any component of the UA interface that runs directly on the native
operating system. User agents run on top of operating systems (Windows,
unix, whatever is in phones, etc.) <proposed>User-Agent user
interface (non-Web-Based): Any components of a user agent user
interface that runs directly on an operating system, such as
Ford_Kelly: What happens when the UI is generated from web content? For
example an extension to the browser frame that is based on HTML or
another web-based content source?
<scribe> scribe: Allan_Jim
<scribe> ScribeNick: AllanJ
<jeanne> ACTION: js to update draft to assign level A to all SC
in 2.1 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2008/12/11-ua-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-102 - Update draft to assign level A to
all SC in 2.1 [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-12-18].
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: JS to delete 3.3.1 from the draft because it is included
in 2.1.2 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2008/12/11-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: js to update draft to assign level A to all SC in 2.1
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/11-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to update draft with new wording for 3.3.2 Access
Relationships: Provide access to explicitly-defined relationships based
on the user's position in content (e.g., show form control's label,
show label's form control, show a cell's table headers, etc.). (Level
A) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/11-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[End of minutes]