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User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 18 Dec 2008

From: Simon Harper <simon.harper@manchester.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 19:41:38 +0000
Message-Id: <EB00B630-844B-4825-9637-197C73B078D7@manchester.ac.uk>
To: UAWG list <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>

User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference (18  
Dec 2008)

IRC Log: http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-ua-irc

Minutes: http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-ua-minutes.html

Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: allanj to review 3.1 and 3.4 propose new success  
criteria [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-ua- 
minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: JA to review 3.1 and 3.4 propose new success criteria  
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-ua-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: JR tp JR, JA to propose new wording for web-based, non- 
web-based using "Web Application" - UAAG and ATAG versions [recorded  
in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: JR, JA to propose new wording for web-based, non-web- 
based using "Web Application" - UAAG and ATAG versions [recorded in  
http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to contact Richard Ishida to discuss use of visual  
characters/fonts in screenreaders. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/ 
2008/12/18-ua-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to repair the Guideline 3.11 numbering [recorded in  
http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-ua-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to update UAAG to assign level A for 2.1.1, 2.1.2,  
2.1.3, 2.1.4, 2.1.6 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-ua- 
minutes.html#action03]

Outstanding Issues:
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues

- DRAFT -
User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

18 Dec 2008

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
+1.425.883.aaaa, Cantor, Harper_simon, JR, Jeanne, Jim_Allan, Judy,  
kford, sharper, Ford_Kelly, Allan_Jim, Cantor_Alan, Richards_Jan,  
Spellman_Jeanne, Brewer_Judy
Regrets
Chair
Jim Allan & Judy Brewer
Scribe
Harper_Simon
Contents

Topics
Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?
Complete Review Survey Items http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/ 
36791/20081209/ Items 3 and 4 - definition of web-based and non-web- 
based user agent
Proposed definition for "non-Web-based"
Level for 2.1.1 - 2.1.6
Continue Reviewing Guideline 3.4, 3.5, 3.6 for clarity and syntax.
3.4.1 Repair Missing Alternatives: The user has the option of  
receiving generated repair text when the user agent recognizes that  
the author has not provided alternative content required by the  
technology specification (e.g., short text alternative for an image).  
(Level A)
Summary of Action Items




<trackbot> Date: 18 December 2008
<scribe> scribe: Harper_Simon
<scribe> ScribeNick: sharper
<scribe> meeting: User Agent Working Group Telecon: 18 Dec 2008
<KFord> zakimm +1.425.883.3343 is Kelly Ford
Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?

Call-in: Zakim bridge at: +1-617-761-6200, code 82941# for UK use
44-117-370-6152
AllanJ: Happy Holidays!zakim, close item 1
Complete Review Survey Items http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/ 
36791/20081209/ Items 3 and 4 - definition of web-based and non-web- 
based user agent

<AllanJ> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20081209/results
Proposed definition for "non-Web-based"

Proposed: user agent user interface (non-Web-Based) Any components of  
a user agent user interface that runs directly on a non-user agent  
platform such as Windows, MacOS, Java Virtual Machine, etc. Base  
browsers are always non-Web-Based.
Results: (Accept 2 / Discuss 4) - What happens when the UI is  
generated from web content? x 2 / Clarify x 2
<AllanJ> other proposal: <proposed>
<AllanJ> User-Agent user interface (non-Web-Based): Any components of  
a user agent user interface that runs directly on an operating  
system, such as Windows, MacOS, Java Virtual Machine, etc. <br />
<AllanJ> Base browsers are always non-Web-Based.
<AllanJ> </proposed>
AllanJ: Email Exchange with Gregg Vanderheiden (starting at: http:// 
lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008OctDec/0078.html)
<jeanne> + 1 to Jim's proposal.
<jeanne> I would like to add mobile OS to the list.
<AllanJ> sharper: perhaps, components not generated from content...
<AllanJ> JS: seems circular
<AllanJ> JR: browsers render content. they provide an interface to  
the content.
<AllanJ> sharper: what about components outside the dom
<AllanJ> JR: scenario, FF have a kernel that runs on windows, that  
renders itself, then renders extensions, then adds components from  
content
<AllanJ> KF: what if the browser runs something in a sandbox, activex  
control, that separate from the OS
All: Thinking Out Loud (moving through 'what if' scenarios)
<AllanJ> ...this is possible, many want to do this, eliminates lots  
of security problems
<AllanJ> JR: back to definition
<AllanJ> ...have WCAG20, it applies to web-based tools
JR: Need this definition to define tools that WCAG can be applied to  
and tools that it can't.
... What about using user agents that are Web applications and ones  
that aren't
AllanJ: need to also better define User Agent - which may resolve  
these definitions of Web Based and Non-Web Based.
... Glossary is Normative
Judy: Do we have an open item on Glossary cross-checking?
<AllanJ> issue: WAI glossary, coordinate between WCAG, ATAG, UAAG
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-26 - WAI glossary, coordinate between WCAG,  
ATAG, UAAG ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/ 
WAI/UA/tracker/issues/26/edit .
JR: I think I have an Action to do - done already earlier this week  
for ATAG
<JR> ACTION: JR, JA to propose new wording for web-based, non-web- 
based using "Web Application" - UAAG and ATAG versions [recorded in  
http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - JR,
<jeanne> ACTION: JR tp JR, JA to propose new wording for web-based,  
non-web-based using "Web Application" - UAAG and ATAG versions  
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-103 - Tp JR, JA to propose new wording for  
web-based, non-web-based using \"Web Application\" - UAAG and ATAG  
versions [on Jan Richards - due 2008-12-25].
RESOLUTION: JR / AllanJ to address this as part of actions across  
WCAG, ATAG, UAAG.
item: Proposed definition for "Web-based"
RESOLUTION: Again JR / AllanJ to address this as part of actions  
across WCAG, ATAG, UAAG.
Level for 2.1.1 - 2.1.6

Judy: need a rationale for 2.1.6 to justify A and not AA
<jeanne> ACTION: JS to update UAAG to assign level A for 2.1.1,  
2.1.2, 2.1.3, 2.1.4, 2.1.6 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18- 
ua-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-104 - Update UAAG to assign level A for  
2.1.1, 2.1.2, 2.1.3, 2.1.4, 2.1.6 [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-12-25].
All: Short discussion to formulate this.
ITEM: Rationale / explanation for 2.1.6 for say font-family needed  
for future developers (how are we considering capturing this kind of  
thing)
ISSUE: Rationale / explanation for 2.1.6 for say font-family needed  
for future developers (how are we considering capturing this kind of  
thing)
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-27 - Rationale / explanation for 2.1.6 for  
say font-family needed for future developers (how are we considering  
capturing this kind of thing) ; please complete additional details at  
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/27/edit .
AllanJ: Should we use font or font-family?
Alan: Typeface?
Fonts in CSS: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/fonts.html
More http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/fonts.html#generic-font-families
<Alan> n typography, a typeface is a set of one or more letters, in  
one or more font sizes, designed with stylistic unity, each  
comprising a coordinated set of glyphs. A typeface usually comprises  
an alphabet of letters, numerals, and punctuation marks; it may also  
include ideograms and symbols, or consist entirely of them, for  
example, mathematical or map-making symbols. The term typeface is...
<AllanJ> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Font_family
<Alan> ...frequently conflated with font; the two terms had more  
clearly differentiated meanings before the advent of desktop  
publishing. The current distinction between font and typeface is that  
a font designates a specific member of a type family such as roman,  
boldface, or italic type, while typeface designates a consistent  
visual appearance or style which can be a "family" or related set of...
<Alan> ...fonts. For example, a given typeface such as Arial may  
include roman, bold, and italic fonts. In the metal type era, a font  
also meant a specific point size, but with digital scalable outline  
fonts this distinction is no longer valid, as a single font may be  
scaled to any size.
<AllanJ> sharper: perhaps use the definition from CSS
<jeanne> ACTION: JS to contact Richard Ishida to discuss use of  
visual characters/fonts in screenreaders. [recorded in http:// 
www.w3.org/2008/12/18-ua-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-105 - Contact Richard Ishida to discuss use  
of visual characters/fonts in screenreaders. [on Jeanne Spellman -  
due 2008-12-25].
<AllanJ> Issue: rieview 2.1.6 Properties and the validity and  
reasoning for including the 6 items
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-28 - Rieview 2.1.6 Properties and the  
validity and reasoning for including the 6 items ; please complete  
additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/28/edit .
ISSUE: Flag (a) the bounding dimensions and coordinates of rendered  
graphical objects, (b) font family of text, (c) font size of text,  
(d) foreground color of text, (e) background color of text., (f)  
change state/value notifications. DON'T WANT TO MOVE TO REC WITHOUT A  
BETTER SHARED UNDERSTANDING OF THESE - SEE ACTION-105
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-29 - Flag (a) the bounding dimensions and  
coordinates of rendered graphical objects, (b) font family of text,  
(c) font size of text, (d) foreground color of text, (e) background  
color of text., (f) change state/value notifications. DON'T WANT TO  
MOVE TO REC WITHOUT A BETTER SHARED UNDERSTANDING OF THESE - SEE  
ACTION-105 ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/ 
WAI/UA/tracker/issues/29/edit .
<jeanne> +1 to named font
<Alan> +2 to named font
<JR> +1 font family (but invetigate better alternatives)
<AllanJ> KF: scenario, browsing on a phone, with limited fonts,  
should the AT give the user more information to the AT user than the  
non-AT user
<AllanJ> JB: font name may not be level A
RESOLUTION: All agree, 'A' for all - but referee back to define these  
6 items better.
Continue Reviewing Guideline 3.4, 3.5, 3.6 for clarity and syntax.

3.4.1 Repair Missing Alternatives: The user has the option of  
receiving generated repair text when the user agent recognizes that  
the author has not provided alternative content required by the  
technology specification (e.g., short text alternative for an image).  
(Level A)

<AllanJ> JR: this covers missing 'alt', user set option if no alt do  
xxx, UA must provide repair options, in future, may be image OCR
<Alan> Rewording... When the user agent recognizes that the author  
has not provided alternative content required by the technology  
specification (e.g., short text alternative for an image), allow the  
user the option to receive generated repair text.
<AllanJ> KF: AT now provides these options, but should be done by the  
UA,
<AllanJ> ...UA would give name of object to AT
<AllanJ> shaper: wordsmithing, why?
<AllanJ> Provide the user with anoption of receiving generated repair  
text when the user agent recognizes that the author has not provided  
alternative content required by the technology specification (e.g.,  
short text alternative for an image).
all alternative: Provide the option of receiving generated repair  
text when the user agent recognizes that the author has omitted  
alternative content required by the technology specification (e.g.,  
short text alternative for an image). (Level A)
<JR> Provide the user with the option of receiving generated repair  
text when the user agent recognizes alternative content is missing  
(e.g., short text alternative for an image).
<jeanne> Provide an option of receiving generated repair text when  
the user agent recognizes alternative content is missing.
<AllanJ> KF: how does this relate to 3.3.3 and the cascade of  
alternative
<AllanJ> sharper: perhaps wrap this into 3.1.1, add generated  
alternatives if content is missing
<AllanJ> JS: repair is important enough to have a separate item
AllanJ: these need a comprehensive re-hash
<AllanJ> JR: user needs option to turn off rendering alternatives
<AllanJ> ACTION: allanj to review 3.1 and 3.4 propose new success  
criteria [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-ua- 
minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - allanj
<jeanne> ACTION: JS to repair the Guideline 3.11 numbering [recorded  
in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-ua-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-106 - Repair the Guideline 3.11 numbering  
[on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-12-25].
<AllanJ> ACTION: JA to review 3.1 and 3.4 propose new success  
criteria [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-ua- 
minutes.html#action07]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-107 - Review 3.1 and 3.4 propose new  
success criteria [on Jim Allan - due 2008-12-25].
RESOLUTION: AllanJ to investigate this further (3.1 and 3.4)
<Alan> quit
<Alan> exit
Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: allanj to review 3.1 and 3.4 propose new success  
criteria [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-ua- 
minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: JA to review 3.1 and 3.4 propose new success criteria  
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-ua-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: JR tp JR, JA to propose new wording for web-based, non- 
web-based using "Web Application" - UAAG and ATAG versions [recorded  
in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: JR, JA to propose new wording for web-based, non-web- 
based using "Web Application" - UAAG and ATAG versions [recorded in  
http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to contact Richard Ishida to discuss use of visual  
characters/fonts in screenreaders. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/ 
2008/12/18-ua-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to repair the Guideline 3.11 numbering [recorded in  
http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-ua-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to update UAAG to assign level A for 2.1.1, 2.1.2,  
2.1.3, 2.1.4, 2.1.6 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-ua- 
minutes.html#action03]

[End of minutes]


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$Date: 2008/12/18 19:34:52 $


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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found Scribe: Harper_Simon
Found ScribeNick: sharper
Default Present: +1.425.883.aaaa, Jim_Allan, kford, Cantor, sharper,  
Jeanne, JR, Judy
Present: +1.425.883.aaaa Cantor Harper_simon JR Jeanne Jim_Allan Judy  
kford sharper Ford_Kelly Allan_Jim Cantor_Alan Richards_Jan  
Spellman_Jeanne Brewer_Judy
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008OctDec/ 
0081.html
Found Date: 18 Dec 2008
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-ua-minutes.html
People with action items: allanj ja jr js tp

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=======================

Simon Harper
University of Manchester (UK)

Human Centred Web Lab: http://hcw.cs.manchester.ac.uk

My Site: http://hcw.cs.manchester.ac.uk/people/harper/
My Diary (Web): http://hcw.cs.manchester.ac.uk/people/harper/ 
phpicalendar/week.php

My Diary (Subscribe): http://hcw.cs.manchester.ac.uk/diaries/harper/ 
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Received on Thursday, 18 December 2008 19:42:16 GMT

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