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Minutes for User Agent Teleconference for 3 July 2008

From: Jan Richards <jan.richards@utoronto.ca>
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 15:23:03 -0400
Message-ID: <486D2717.1080000@utoronto.ca>
To: UAWG <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>


Action Items:
ACTION: SH draft new rationale text for 4.1 keyboard shortcuts
ACTION: MH draft rational text for each x.1 guideline
ACTION: JS to To record previous example "resizing window" in techniques
ACTION: JS will write a new guideline that includes the requirements for 
content display of keyboard shortcuts.
ACTION: JS draft a content-oriented keyboard shortcut proposal and check 
w/ Jan

Full text:
03 Jul 2008


See also: IRC log

     [Microsoft], Jeanne, Judy, Kelly_Ford, Simon_Harper, Jan_Richards, 
Judy_Brewer, Mark_Hakkinen, Jeanne_Spellman


     * Topics
          1. 4.1.1
          2. 4.1.2
          3. 4.1.3
          4. 4.1.4
          5. 4.1.5
     * Summary of Action Items

<scribe> Scribe: Jan

All; Introductions

Including new members Simon Harper and Mark Hakkinen.

JB: Jim Allan is on vacation...way offline

<scribe> Agenda: 

JS: This doc 
... Comes from me trying to follow what's going on...so I've brought it 
all together into one document
... Once I did it, it seems like a useful thing to share
... So now looks different than usual
... Ifyou look at it...took allgls in 4.1
... Each has existing text and then proposed text
... Tried to put proposals in as Notes for reference purposes
... Let's start at 4.1...we were missing an introduction

KF: Comment...how specific...before rattling off populations...needs to 
summarize all users...
... Say"accomodating a wide range of users that includes..."

JR: No other intros...but ok...many musts.

JB: Should not be ad libbing structure of doc

JR: ATAG has rationale

JB: Some people may try and grab guideline level text as normative even 
if we say its not
... Can we move this somewhere else

JR: Can we reuse another structur...do we need it ? Or can it be rationale?

JS: Yes
... I added because of difficulties JB was having in TEITAC...that's 
where I was coming from...I'm not attached to it

JB: Reason for doing=Rationale
... Looking at ATAG...
... Another reason for being conservative here is that we need it all 
throgu UAAG2
... Looking at wcag2...they have principle, guideline and success criteria
... Principle, guideline very terse
... They handle rationale by passing person to Understanding doc

SH: Looks like a defintion
... Less like rationale

JB: Think rationale comes through and defintiion is there too
... Each of 3 sentences is different

SH: Def section?

JB: Yes a glossary
... I'm wondering about "most universal" construct

SH: Can I volunteer to rewrite?

JB: Just a sec...
... Do we want rationale under each.

KF: Think we do want "Rationale"

MH: I like rationale there.short and sweet
... Like ATAG

JB: Thought exercise...on "rationale" if we skim rest of UAAG2 draft...

JR: I think so.

JB: Let's just look....
... Picking...3.6

JR: Think we can

JB: 4.3...

SH: Pragmatically...if we can't create rationale...there is a prob

JB: Right...apologize for playing devil's advocate
... Just worried by how many meetings would be required

MH: How many people?

JB: Participation hasn't stabilized.
... Prob. 7-8 core by sept

MH: I have some level of energy for this

SH: Maybe let's see how it works for keyboard

JR: We can borrow a lot from ATAG

JB: I appreicate enthusiamsm from Simon and Mark...do wyou want to look 
at drafting...incl importing from ATAG.

SH: Maybe lets's do 1.2, 2.2, 3....

JB: Good idea
... For approach let's do as concisely as possible
... So JS if you feel anything will be lost...maybe propose way of 
moving them back

JS: THink its all there below...I was just trying to make it clear

JB: So nothing more to talk about re: 4.1 paragraph

JB: Existing, Proposed,...

<Judy> ACTION: SH draft new rationale text for 4.1 keyboard shortcuts 
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<Judy> ACTION: MH draft rational text for each x.1 guideline [recorded 
in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-ua-minutes.html#action02]

JR: Just wants to make sure "functionality" is clear enough

<Judy> http://www.w3.org/TR/UAAG10-TECHS/

JB: We seem ok with Jeanne's proposal

<scribe> ACTION: JS to To record previous example "resizing window" in 
techniques [recorded in 

JS: Only title change

JB: Some requirements moving away from titles
... So came to "Documentation of Precedence of Keystroke Processing"
... And another requirement had the same title

JB, JR: DDiscuss why there are 2 and why document is higher priority

JS: Wondering where it should be documented

JB: TEITAC had lots of dscussion on where things should be documented
... I recall I was on calls with KF where progress was made
... JS had some language..."prominent in the documentation"
... Maybe we could use the same wording...in the same place

JS: So co-located with list of shortcut keys

JR: Agreed

JB: Totle ok
... Ttle ok

JB: No change

JB: No change

JB: Available keystrokes...
... So Jeanne tried to bring in some other stuff.

KF: Editorial..."both"

JR: Quite different than it was.

JS: Right

JB: We will come back to title

JR: Try to avoid "content"

<KFord> Jan raised concerns over recognized.

<KFord> 4.5 rewritten to 4.1.5 Available Keyboard Shortcuts: The user 
can always determine available keyboard shortcuts by all of the following:

<KFord> list of 3 items

<KFord> � (a) A user setting in which keyboard shortcuts for currently 
available controls are visually displayed (e.g. an underlined letter or 
inclusion in a user

<KFord> interface menu).

<KFord> � (b) If a keyboard shortcut exists for a component, then it is 
available programmatically to assistive technology.

<KFord> � (c) A list of all keyboard shortcuts that is prominent in the 

<KFord> list end

<KFord> JB: two concerns.

<KFord> people thinking keyboard shortucts in content when we meant chrome.

<KFord> JB explained user interface keyboard provision in response from 

<KFord> JB: 4.15 is the ability of the user to determine keyboard 
shortcuts in the way that works best for the way they are accessing the 
user agent e.g. screen reader, looking at product and such.

<KFord> JB clarifying 4.1.5 and 4.1.7.

<KFord> JAN expressed opinion that current proposal has lost key content.

<KFord> Talk about meeting logistics. Can we meet for 90 minutes to make 

<KFord> Anyone have a conflict going to 90 minutes asked by JB?

<KFord> Simon expressed desire to start early verssu going late.

<KFord> Simon willing to give the later time a chance.

<KFord> JB: Going to try 90 minutes

<KFord> JB: can we go 15 minutes past the hour.

<KFord> JB: asked if group can go for 15 minutes.

<KFord> KFord not able to but group will continue.

<jeanne> scribe nick: jeanne

<jeanne> ACTION: JS will write a new guideline that includes the 
requirements for content display of keyboard shortcuts. [recorded in 

<jeanne> JB: is there a reason that the word "component" is used rather 
than User Interface Application Controls?

<jeanne> JR: the length of the phrase. That was why we went toward 
"chrome" because that was recognized in the industry.

<jeanne> SH: Let's drop the phrase "for a component" so it reads, If a 
keyboard shortcut exists, then it is available programmatically to 
assitive technology".

<jeanne> JB: Flag 4.1.5 (c) for more discussion. JB is concerned that 
"prominent" may not be sufficient.

<Judy> ACTION: JS draft a content-oriented keyboard shortcut proposal 
and check w/ Jan [recorded in 

<jeanne> present?

Judy Brewer wrote:
> User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group (UAWG) Teleconference 
> for 3 July 2008
> Chair: Judy Brewer
> Date: Thursday, 3 July 2008
> Time: 2:00-3:00 pm Boston Local Time, USA (19:00-20:00 UTC/GMT)
> Call-in: Zakim bridge at: +1-617-761-6200, code 82941# for UK use
> 44-117-370-6152
> IRC: sever: irc.w3.org, port: 6665, channel: #ua.
> Agenda:
> 1. Regrets, agenda requests, comments?
> 2. Keyboard access and visibility of keyboard controls
> - please see Jeanne's updated keyboard proposal document:
>         http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2008/keyboardProposals20080702.html
> - given the short meeting notice (our apologies on that), we will work 
> our way through this and flag issues for discussion as needed, but not 
> make final decisions on any of the items.
> Thanks, and talk to you soon!
> - Judy
> -- 
> Judy Brewer    +1.617.258.9741    http://www.w3.org/WAI
> Director, Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI), World Wide Web Consortium 
> (W3C)
> MIT/CSAIL Building 32-G526
> 32 Vassar Street
> Cambridge, MA,  02139,  USA

Jan Richards, M.Sc.
User Interface Design Specialist
Adaptive Technology Resource Centre (ATRC)
Faculty of Information (i-school)
University of Toronto

   Email: jan.richards@utoronto.ca
   Web:   http://jan.atrc.utoronto.ca
   Phone: 416-946-7060
   Fax:   416-971-2896
Received on Thursday, 3 July 2008 19:21:48 UTC

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