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Minutes 20 Feb 2008

From: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:37:01 -0600
To: "WAI-ua" <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
Message-ID: <07b501c874c1$215afb60$6410f220$@edu>

Draft Minutes
http://www.w3.org/2008/02/21-ua-minutes.html

Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: JA to look into whether SMIL identifies captions explicitly
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/21-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: JA to Move start time to 2pm ET [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2008/02/21-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: JR to Add something on resizing embedded viewers [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2008/02/21-ua-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: JR to Make sure call goes to 3:30pm [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2008/02/21-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: JR to When review audio/video guidelines we need to put in
track selection, text configuration of captions [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2008/02/21-ua-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: KF to Gather some more Microsoft insight on video issue
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/21-ua-minutes.html#action06]

Attendees

Present
    Jan, KFord, Judy, Plh, JimAllan, Plh.a
Regrets
Chair
    Jim Allan
Scribe
    Jan

Contents

    * Topics
         1. UAAG2, Video on the Web discussion with Invited Guest: Philippe
Le Hegaret
    * Summary of Action Items

 

 

<AllanJ> Title: UAWG telecon

<AllanJ> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JanMar/0043.html

<AllanJ> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JanMar/0045.html

<scribe> Scribe: Jan

KF: Prefers 2pm ET

JA, JR: Agree

<scribe> ACTION: JA to Move start time to 2pm ET [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2008/02/21-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<scribe> ACTION: JR to Make sure call goes to 3:30pm [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2008/02/21-ua-minutes.html#action02]
UAAG2, Video on the Web discussion with Invited Guest: Philippe Le Hegaret

PLH: Architecture domain leader
... Several formats, internationalization...
... There was a video conference I chaired...
... Published report 2 days ago

<AllanJ> http://www.w3.org/2007/08/video/report.html

JA: I know accessibility came up a bit...do you have any issues to bring up?

PLH: Discussed variety of subjects...
... We had a presentation on Sign language and video

<AllanJ> http://www.w3.org/2007/08/video/papers

PLH: Other accessibility position papers pointed back to WAI guidelines
... When look at video on Web not much has accessible content
... Improving - Flash getting supports for captionning

JA: WGBH has buiolt an accessible Flash player
... Many flash players can't be used from keyboardf

<plh> sorry, my phone decided to reboot :(

JA: So as User Agent WG we have some guidelines related to video,...
... Change speed, synchonization, show captions
... WGBH created player...now would be nice if Adobe picked it up

PLH: Yes...should say there are 3 WG working on video...
... SMIL WG, video WG, HTML WG
... Right now waving their hands and leaving it to UA to support
... ex. here is video if there is captions, UA must deal with that

JA: Right in HTML plugins

PLH: Direct support in HTML - Audio and Video tag

JA: Opera has a Beta

PLH: Also Firefox has beta
... Suggest pay attention to what those tools are doing
... UAAG should tell the developers what to do when they find captions...

JA: We have existing guidelkines around stop, start pause, navigate
incrmentally, captionning on/off
... Need fairly robust API from HTML

PLH: It is fairly robust...but what else do we need to do
... eg colors

JB: Contrast?

PLH: Yes

JB: Don't we need go user control of this...eg for display of captions

JA: Would be a native support issue...embedded players in past have been a
problem...in esternal player there is more control
... Backing up...currently in SMIL, SAMI the captions are in a seprate
window
... So no contrast issue?

PLH: SMIL is just one big window

JA: In some other players Real etc. I've seen them in a different window

JB: KF how some SAMI work on this?

KF: Not sure of the top of my head

JA: SAMI ones have been the way I describe it

PLH: SMIL doesn't have concept of caption
... Has concept of text
... SMIL3 is introducing a text format

<plh> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/CR-SMIL3-20080115/

JR: We assume that captions are identified

<scribe> ACTION: JA to look into whether SMIL identifies captions explicitly
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/21-ua-minutes.html#action03]

JA: Didn't mean Windows, meant different area

PLH: Should Caption handling appear at API level
... Or at the User Agent level

JA: Clarify?

PLH: 2 levels
... What can script conteol and what can user agent
... eg. So script can't change prefs at the moment

JA: Prefer UA do it, since script leaves to many ways to do things

PLH: So which way?

JB: Both

PLH: Do we want author to say must show French captions

JB: But doesn't author set preferences

PLH: Author has to provide the various tracks

KF: Author should be able to set deafult, but user can overridie

PLH: So in caption tech they have language *en, fr, sp etc.)...
... Not enough..what about video description...
... And use cases eg eng captions, fr video descripotions

JA: Reading about audio description tracks
... Sometimes people put text version of audio descriptions

JR: Seems like we need ARIA roles etc

JA: Meta info?

PLH: Also SMIL could set out these roles

JA: OK let's see if we can pull this together
... So in user agent, we want to control features and functionalities of
video, play stop start
... Also incremental nav

JR: Also structured navigation

PLH: Do you want authors to have control

<AllanJ> API=author provides options

<AllanJ> UA=user chooses from available options

JR: Example of mode in which user can pause video until they dismiss each
caption

PLH: Full screen is example
... Don't want author to set full screen option
... French captions would be another example

JA: It's an "author proposes, user disposes" example
... Author could propose Full Screen, but UA could allow User to override
that

<plh> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#media

<plh> (that's the current API for video and audio elements)

JA: So now we have to come up wih list of additional UA controls needed
... So API built into user agent?

PLH: Yes

JA: Other things...captions on/off...caption formatting
... Selection of available text tracks, video tracks
... Then re: video description 1. embedded in audio track or 2. in own audio
track

<plh> [audio track with director's commentary is an other use case for this
btw]

<scribe> ACTION: JR to When review audio/video guidelines we need to put in
track selection, text configuration of captions [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2008/02/21-ua-minutes.html#action04]

JA: SO how does author communicate avialability

PLH: So now these are delivered together
... Up to UA decide which to display
... Can improve state of metadata with each

JA: Searchable?

PLH: Yes

JA: Also issue of sizing...
... ex. looking at streaming...
... If we allow captions to be larger...will that expand viewer?
... Causing reflow?
... ANd embedded things hard to resiza

PLH: No technical problem with reflowing like that
... Could also magnify page
... If I don't want caption on page but want beside it becomes a bigger
issue

JA: Haven't seen a 2 box example
... Current UA's don't resize viewers

PLH: This will now be allowed

<scribe> ACTION: JR to Add something on resizing embedded viewers [recorded
in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/21-ua-minutes.html#action05]

JA: Codec issues seem outside user agent?

PLH: Prob for ua but not in accessibility

JR: Blue sky...what about changing contrast of playing video etc

PLH: Can see use case

JA: Also interactive video - changable, clickable video
... Video like image map?

PLH: Spatial Addressing, temporal addressing
... Some existing solutions for this
... We are trying to develop a common solution
... Spatial addressing...like an image map...we haven't thought much about
UI

JR: It's coming
... Mentionned sign language for Web...

www.aslpah.ca

JA: We need to alert user to it being there and allow user to activate

KF: User agent could keep track of things

JA: Also need searching
... Gallaudet...Hamlet had scene descs etc on basis of captionning
... Searching of text tracks

PLH: Video object recognition is coming up
... Technology is improving
... Reuter's has a tool that let's you search for a person's name and then
it finds it in videos
... See this as auto-generation of metadata
... Metadata by hand is hard

JA: Added benfit if video is native

PLH: Don't expect face recog just yet in UA's
... Metadata issue is still a problem
... WGBH generates metadata but it is removed along the stream
... Even across codec changes

JB: May make sense to use this as first discussion and work though it with
current draft then have Phillipe back

KF: We need to get a foundation going

JB: Maybe we should invite others - Geoff Freed
... Maybe a few others

KF: Would like to talk to some internal microsfoft people

<scribe> ACTION: KF to Gather some more Microsoft insight on video issue
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/21-ua-minutes.html#action06]

PLH: can also apply to images

JA: Video codec problem is immense

PLH: Video adoption will be slow until codec issue is sorted

JA: Thanks Phillipe
Received on Thursday, 21 February 2008 19:38:23 GMT

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