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Minutes for User Agent Teleconference for January 31, 2008

From: Jan Richards <jan.richards@utoronto.ca>
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:06:19 -0500
Message-ID: <47A21C2B.9030203@utoronto.ca>
To: 'WAI-ua' <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>


Action items:
ACTION: JR to Rewrite 10.1 with issues brought up in call

Full text:
WCAG comments due Feb 1.
JR: Didn't see any UAAG showstoppers in WCAG

CL: No IBM comments so far
... Already use WCAG 2.0 draft version from awhile back as IBM guidance

JA: I had a UAAG chat with Judy yesterday...
... She wonders about going out quickly...
... WAI 3.0 would combine things together

KF: So then why a UAAG2...why not wait?

JA: Might be a while.

KF: Maybe we shoot towards that rather than to version2

JA: JR and I talking about making v2 a quick edit

CL: Just get all input into Editor's draft

JA: IF JR and I get together...we can conference everyone in

CSUN presentation
JA: Our presentation was not approved
... But will get 10mins in Judy's WAI overview time

CL: Other chairs coming?

JA: No just me
... So what should I focus on in 10 mins?

KF: In Dec looking at publishing to TR

JR: Tentatively scheduled to go to TR in early March

JA: So maybe we should meet in Feb...will see
... Way cool to get draft out...so what should I talk about?
... 1 participation, 2 uaag new structure, 3 how future accessible 
browsers might implement Web2, 4 what new browsers controls are needed, 
5 separation of core browser requirements from ATs, 6...

<AllanJ> 4. How the use of engineered platform accessibility APIs vs. 
DOM (application-specific APIs) vs. off-screen models (OSMs) and 
heuristics effect the userís access to information delivered by the browser.

JA: So what to focus on?

JR: Particpation YES, new structure NO


(CSUN proposal email)

CL: Lot in PF docs about how new browsers will implement ARIA

JA: I have real concerns about accessibility falling apart again with Web2.0

CL: Not really UAAG this time...
... UAAG1 tried to drive accessibility to UA's and AT's now it's PF
... Aaron L implmenting in Firefox...
... Not sure about IE and Safari
... So not sure how to address this from UAAG perspective

KF: Microsoft participating but not public on what doing yet
... Very aware of what's going on

JA: Maybe we say we feel there are concerns about speed of tech changing 
and how are we going to maintain accessibility to this stuff

CL: From WAI perspective this stuff still being looked at...so 
interesting if merged.

JA: So general application interface side...but then inside form is a 
form is a form....

CL: Concepts the same even if techs aredifferent

JA: We should also talk a bit about compliance split
... Between browser and ATs

CL: We could use some exa,ples from issues list to illustrate what we 
are wrestling with
... Slides?

JA: Not sure
... Will put together outline by next week

JA: We are extended for a bit

JR: Yes - don't remembe how long

JR's proposal on 10.1

<AllanJ> 10.1 seemed a specific instance of providing associated 
orientation information

<AllanJ> CL: other examples, nested frame and trees are different things.

CL: Lot of other examples you mentioneed I wouldn't have thought of...

CL Like sections of a doc

CL: Like landmark role in document

<AllanJ> JR: hierarchical structure in HTML are not containers.

<AllanJ> JR: would be good to add containers.

CL: Should also call out trees

<AllanJ> CL: also colapseable/expandable content (twisties)

<AllanJ> JR: Should this be paired with 2.3 conditional content

CL: Add "trees" as example, add "landmark" - related to use of 

<AllanJ> All: discussion of hierarchy of HTML 4 headings

<AllanJ> KF: AT makes implicit associations between Hx and text following it

<scribe> ACTION: JR to Rewrite 10.1 with issues brought up in call 
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/31-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<AllanJ> CL: in tables also talking about row and col number

<AllanJ> JR: general case: numbering pieces of content when in a 
heirarchy (row, column, or section 1, etc)

CL: If broadened out...what about label for a control
... THe word in Accessibility API's is "Relations" between objects...
... ControllerFro, Controlledby, LabelFor, etc.
... May pull in other checkpoints

JR: Doesn't seem to be called out anywhere else - there is one for 
making infoset available, and implement access features

JA: Seems to be stumbling on a big cross cutting requirement

JR's proposal for 10.2

<AllanJ> JR: reviews discussion from last week

<AllanJ> JR: "recognized" as "content controlled" - a web 2.0 control 
might say I will provide my own highlight and the browser gives it control

JA: Think it's a lot cleaner

CL: Is checkpoint looking like you must use them
... Language seems stronger

JR: It is...before it had requirments for things not required

JA: Brings up "except when "recognized" as "content-controlled")"

PP: How does User Agent know?

KF: We had similar concept in other places...

<AllanJ> JR: does dojo handles its own highliting

<AllanJ> PP: are we talking about focus, text, element in a list

PP: Focus - this element is part of the Tab order....
... or not
... Still up to user agent to allow focus to go there
... Firefox just renders regular border

<AllanJ> browser does not know if dojo will provide focus border or 
other style.

PP: In ARIA could say something is "active descendant"....
... UA doesn't move focus but content could do the highlighting

JR: That's what I meant
... OK I will try to clean up the language to be more specific

<cklaws> I need to leave

JA: Will be tackling untouched guidelines...

Jim Allan wrote:
> W3C User Agent Teleconference for January 31, 2008
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Chair: Jim Allan
> Date: Thursday, January 24, 2008
> Time: 1:00-2:00 pm Boston Local Time, USA (18:00-19:00 UTC/GMT)
> Call-in: Zakim bridge at: +1-617-761-6200, code 82941# for UK use
> 44-117.270-6152
> IRC: sever: irc.w3.org, port: 6665, channel: #ua.
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> Regrets: 
> Agenda:
> 0. Regrets, agenda requests, or comments to the list
> 1. WCAG comments due Feb 1.
> 2. CSUN presentation
> 3. Next steps in the working draft
> 	Structure
> 	Guidelines not yet touched
> Jim Allan, Webmaster & Statewide Technical Support Specialist 
> Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired 
> 1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
> voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
>>>> Share to Win! <<<

Jan Richards, M.Sc.
User Interface Design Specialist
Adaptive Technology Resource Centre (ATRC)
Faculty of Information Studies
University of Toronto

   Email: jan.richards@utoronto.ca
   Web:   http://jan.atrc.utoronto.ca
   Phone: 416-946-7060
   Fax:   416-971-2896
Received on Thursday, 31 January 2008 19:06:22 UTC

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