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	---	Connected. Now logging in..
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	---	End of /MOTD command.
	-->	You are now talking on #ua
	-->	jallan (Jim@170.76.20.253) has joined #ua
	---	You're inviting Zakim to #ua (irc.w3.org)
	-->	Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30) has joined #ua
	<Al>	Zakim, this is UAWG
	<Zakim>	ok, Al; that matches WAI_UAWG()2:00PM
	<jallan>	Hi Al please call in
	<Zakim>	+Cathy_Laws
	<Al>	Zakim, call AlGilman-home
	<Zakim>	ok, Al; the call is being made
	<Zakim>	+AlGilman
	-->	cklaws (claws@70.112.153.190) has joined #ua
	<Zakim>	+Jan_Richards
	-->	JR (jan.richar@142.150.154.179) has joined #ua
	<Zakim>	-Jan_Richards
	<JR>	I got kicked off...
	<Zakim>	+ +1.781.316.aaaa
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	<Zakim>	+Jan_Richards
	<JR>	JA: Only new column in roadmap is: Components Related 
	<JR>	UAAG Checkpoints 
	<JR>	JA: Hasn't send roadmap comments to PF explicitly.
	<JR>	JA: But received a few comments (not many)
	<JR>	AG: OK but you should ping AG with this.
	<JR>	AG: Thinks someone from UAAG should come and brief PF group.
	<JR>	JA: We have had a couple emails on this.
	<JR>	AG: Too narrow band for this.
	<JR>	JA: AG and JA to coord for future work
	<JR>	JA: Next step: review the Structural Roles table to ensure definitional alignment
	<JR>	between UAAG and the Roadmap
	<JR>	JA: Last week we were unsure of a few details.
	<JR>	AG: What is in draft for that section is pretty raw.
	-->	dpoehlman (davidpoehl@68.49.11.69) has joined #ua
	<JR>	AG: Neither part of doc is definitive.
	<JR>	AG: Send a mail to xtech about structure.
	<JR>	action AG: send email to JA on structure
	<JR>	action AG : send email to JA on structure
	*	jallan invite rrsagent #ua
	<JR>	AG action: send email to JA on structure
	<JR>	oh well
	<JR>	AG: to send Cathy info on joining xtech
	<JR>	AL: Should UA subscribe to xtech?
	<JR>	AG: No
	<JR>	AG: PF will be monitoring xtech so Cathy can send her comments to roadmap.
	<JR>	AG: Starts on top of roadmap -> Events -> 1.2
	<JR>	AG: Looking at uaag checkpoint to consider how it affects roadmap work.
	<jallan>	test
	-->	RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.30) has joined #ua
	<RRSAgent>	logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/12/01-ua-irc
	<JR>	ok so it wasn't logging? I'll cut and past
	<JR>	<JR> JA: Only new column in roadmap is: Components Related 
	<JR>	<JR> UAAG Checkpoints 
	<JR>	<JR> JA: Hasn't send roadmap comments to PF explicitly.
	<JR>	<JR> JA: But received a few comments (not many)
	<JR>	<JR> AG: OK but you should ping AG with this.
	<JR>	<JR> AG: Thinks someone from UAAG should come and brief PF group.
	<JR>	<JR> JA: We have had a couple emails on this.
	<JR>	<JR> AG: Too narrow band for this.
	<JR>	<JR> JA: AG and JA to coord for future work
	<JR>	<JR> JA: Next step: review the Structural Roles table to ensure definitional alignment
	<JR>	<JR> between UAAG and the Roadmap
	<JR>	<JR> JA: Last week we were unsure of a few details.
	<JR>	<JR> AG: What is in draft for that section is pretty raw.
	<JR>	* dpoehlman has joined #ua
	<JR>	<JR> AG: Neither part of doc is definitive.
	<JR>	<JR> AG: Send a mail to xtech about structure.
	<JR>	<JR> action AG: send email to JA on structure
	<JR>	<JR> action AG : send email to JA on structure
	<JR>	* jallan invite rrsagent #ua
	<JR>	<JR> AG action: send email to JA on structure
	<JR>	<JR> oh well
	<JR>	<JR> AG: to send Cathy info on joining xtech
	<JR>	<JR> AL: Should UA subscribe to xtech?
	<JR>	<JR> AG: No
	<JR>	<JR> AG: PF will be monitoring xtech so Cathy can send her comments to roadmap.
	<JR>	<JR> AG: Starts on top of roadmap -> Events -> 1.2
	<JR>	<JR> AG: Looking at uaag checkpoint to consider how it affects roadmap work.
	<JR>	action AG: send email to JA and CL about xtech joining
	*	RRSAgent records action 1
	<JR>	AG, AL: Discussion of events..
	<JR>	AG: Roadmap blank on ua reqs...
	<JR>	CL: Is AL's implementation covered by uaag?
	<JR>	CL: Trying to figure out if anything needs to be added to uaag?
	<JR>	AL: Maybe could be handled by some new uaag techs?
	<JR>	JA: wanted to bring this uaag gap analysis back to pf
	<JR>	DP?: Also are there contradictions between them?
	<Zakim>	-Jim_Allan
	<Zakim>	+Jim_Allan
	<JR>	AL: No change in DOM when CSS changes.
	<JR>	JA: Is that not value change?
	<JR>	AL: What I had to do in layout engine - when there is a re-style looks for things that were invisible and are now visible or viceversa - if this happens AL's system fires an MSAA event.
	<JR>	AL: But no DOM event happens. Not even a mutation event.
	<JR>	CL: Really?
	<JR>	AL: Style change that hasn't changed a node.
	<JR>	AL: Because style can change for reasons outside the DOM
	<JR>	AL: Against states that could disagree with reality -e.g. no focus state
	<JR>	AG: Should check back with PF about ua requirement that these things be generated by events.
	<JR>	DP: No parallel in Linux etc?
	<JR>	AL: Yes think there are events for show/hide.
	<JR>	in linux
	<JR>	AL: So previous discussion was on Windows
	<JR>	AL: Does ua say anything about 3 types of nav reg, container (treeview) with internal nav, non interactive content (e.g. progress meter)
	<JR>	?
	<JR>	JA, CL: ua does say that all info must be available to nav
	<JR>	AG: Has issue with this model - what happened in uaag dev people had lots of nav schemes - but in end only minimum came out.
	<JR>	AG: Roadmap will support richer nav methods.
	<JR>	AG: So for TAB key is like continuous play in DAISY
	<JR>	AG: vs. structured DAISY nav
	<JR>	AL: Already like this - in HTML we tab between lists and arrow within
	<JR>	AL: SR user will be informed of navigation options by the role (e.g. "listbox")
	<JR>	AL: In uaag does all interactive stuff have to be in tab order?
	<JR>	CL: Think uaag covers most of this nav conceptually.
	<JR>	JA: SR's have provided richer nav than regular ua's
	<JR>	AG: But should SR detect roles? Move to next same, move to next different, etc.
	<JR>	AL: This should actually a requirement for any new renderable markup language at w3c.
	<JR>	AG: DAISY has useful precedent -"escapable structures"
	<JR>	AG: eg. Help I want out of structure.
	<JR>	AG: Not just go to, but also excape from.
	<JR>	AG: scope is necessary for escaping (but not for going to)
	<JR>	AG: Is there ua-wg support for escape method?
	<JR>	DP: On uawg and pf
	<JR>	DP: would like to volunteer
	<JR>	CL: Is ecape clause in roadmap?
	<JR>	AG: No
	<JR>	AG: it's an example of kind of thing UAWG could decide should be added to roadmap.
	<JR>	JA: COuld be technique in navigate structure
	<JR>	AL: Possible issue: need labelled by and described by - DOM already has label-to etc
	<JR>	AL: ANything DOM lacks seems to be an issue
	<JR>	AL: Same prob in opposite direction HTML (which has label-for)
	<jallan>	Al: easy to go to element with id=x, but harder to go to "what points to id=x"
	<JR>	AG: COuld be new requirement on ua's to enrich dom with backwards relationships
	<JR>	AL: Do think hidden-visiblew issue is one for ua-wg
	<JR>	AL: Special case is Alerts.
	<JR>	AL: e.g. someone filling out form.
	<JR>	issue DP: cue 2 issues to xtech hidden/visible, and second is escape from container
	<JR>	action DP: cue 2 issues to xtech hidden/visible, and second is escape from container
	*	RRSAgent records action 2
	<JR>	JA: Need to continue this discussion
	<JR>	JA: Get sense that its too early to start building test cases.
	<JR>	action AL: share 3-tier nav slides to ua-wg (on next uaag call - Dec 15)
	*	RRSAgent records action 3
	<JR>	action JA: take definitions concern to CG
	*	RRSAgent records action 4
	<--	dpoehlman (davidpoehl@68.49.11.69) has left #ua
	<jallan>	emma - extensive multimodal alignment?
	<Zakim>	- +1.781.316.aaaa
	<JR>	Jim - will you wrap up?
	<Zakim>	-DPoehlman
	<Zakim>	-AlGilman
	<Zakim>	-Jan_Richards
	<--	JR has quit (Quit: JR)
	<Zakim>	-Cathy_Laws
	<Zakim>	-Jim_Allan
	<--	cklaws has quit (Quit: cklaws)
	<Zakim>	WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has ended
	<Zakim>	Attendees were Jim_Allan, DPoehlman, Cathy_Laws, AlGilman, Jan_Richards, +1.781.316.aaaa
	<jallan>	meeting: W3C User Agent Teleconference for  1 December 2005
	<jallan>	scribe: Jan Richards
	<jallan>	chair: Jim Allan
	<jallan>	zakim, bye
	<--	Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30) has left #ua
	<jallan>	rrsagent, set logs world_visible
	<RRSAgent>	jallan, access must be one of team, member, offices, AB, public or world
	<jallan>	rrsagent, draft minutes
	<RRSAgent>	I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/12/01-ua-minutes.html jallan
	<jallan>	rrsagent, bye
	<RRSAgent>	I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/01-ua-actions.rdf :
	<RRSAgent>	ACTION: AG to send email to JA and CL about xtech joining [1]
	<RRSAgent>	  recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/01-ua-irc#T19-19-32
	<RRSAgent>	ACTION: DP to cue 2 issues to xtech hidden/visible, and second is escape from container [2]
	<RRSAgent>	  recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/01-ua-irc#T20-00-47
	<RRSAgent>	ACTION: AL to share 3-tier nav slides to ua-wg (on next uaag call - Dec 15) [3]
	<RRSAgent>	  recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/01-ua-irc#T20-03-24
	<RRSAgent>	ACTION: JA to take definitions concern to CG [4]
	<RRSAgent>	  recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/01-ua-irc#T20-04-25
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