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Minutes - W3C User Agent Accessibility Teleconference 18 November 2004

From: Jim Allan <allanj@tsb1.tsbvi.edu>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:37:50 -0600
To: W3C WAI-UAWG <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
Message-id: <HDEAKIPKOHBCMDILOOPNIEFLOJAA.allanj@tsbvi.edu>

In Attendance:
Susan Crane
Jon Gunderson
Mary Otten - Tech Access
Jim Allan
Dave Poehlman
Matt May
Tony Ballou - Tech Access
Will Pearson
Peter Korn
Cathy Laws

1. UAAG review of working draft for W3C Timed Text Format
jg: sent and forwarded comments to the WG
discuss Timed Text
sc: designed to be written by authoring tool, and rendered by any player.
jg: concern: interchange among authoring systems, what about the users
sc: changing font size is a player function
wp: separate presentation from content, agent decides how to display
sc: format has styles, fonts, colors, etc. author defined.
ja: same as html, author defines presentation.
jg: css allows user styling, timed text does not address user styling.
jg: user requirement, font family, size, foreground/background color,
presentation speed
mm: not sure if that is part of the spec.
sc: need to add our requirements as an accessibility appendix.
dp: similar to pdf, ability to mark up content is not rich enough for the
rendering end, is this a parallel issue with timed text...not rich enough
for the player to allow changing presentation.
jg: author can only specify 1 style, this was not intended to be used by
rendering engines. has all the features of quicktime, real and sami.
mm: it is just a transcoding engine between the various player formats.
jg: the WG can only comment about the accessibility of rendering engines and
allowing changes to speed, font size, color, and family. Inherit colors from
wp: windows has a standard for doing it.
jg: others don't so no inter-operability.
pk: can inherit colors from gnome. if accessible you are "theme" compliant,
should inherit application theme.
jg: WG comments less specific to working draft, and more towards the
rendering engine. Player support inheriting OS colors & fonts, and comply
with UAAG requirements.

*** action sc will have a draft of comments by monday. forward to PF later
next week.

2. UAAG review of SVG 1.2 recommendation

jg: wp wrote comments about "color", and "flow div", and other container
elements; focus and navigation.
wp: lots of references to "clicking" with mice. moving to next focusable
element, only 2 comments related to device independence.
jg: need to reinforce device independence.
wp: mind set of svg wg is that svg is a graphics format. focusable elements
inherit "tab" but can't tab to everything. Author can disable tab sequence.
jg: svg wg need to understand device independence.
jg: concerned about scalability.
wp: zooming is in there.
jg: user should be able to scale it, over ride the author,
user should be able to have colors or gray scale,
wp: and swapping colors - user agent provides dialog and user chooses color
mapping from the menus provided.
jg: how will user agent know which color to provide.
pk: why not inherit from the OS settings.
jg: with text it is ok. but images are more difficult, colors have meanings.
pk: extent we deal with this internally, vs using an external magnifier to
change colors. may need to build...
mm: criteria for conforming svg viewers, zooming and panning built in.
pk: inverse theme - invert b/w leave other colors, straight inversion
(red/green), and luminosity (dark colors become light).
jg: biggest concern is gray scale.
mm: criteria for colors - conform with css, user first in the cascade.
wp: still under discussion in svg wg.
jg: gray scale (no luminosity), inverse theme - invert b/w leave other
colors, straight color inversion (red/green), and luminosity (dark colors
become bright green)
mm: gray scale is built into svg 1.1, series of filters provided. others -
filtering mechanism is provided but more difficulty.
pk: do we require information is still available. if doc. is gray scaled,
then red and green become the same color...bad for everyone. need to provide
a luminosity difference and set a minimum delta in an automated fashion.
mm: gray scale is built into svg 1.1, series of filters provided. others -
filtering mechanism is provided but more difficulty.
jg: new set: gray scale (with color luminosity), inverse theme - invert b/w
leave other colors, straight color inversion (red/green), and luminosity
(dark colors become bright green)
sc: important to also update (transform) the color key
wp: color values should be available textually - so they are available to
assistive technology.
pk: just show the rgb value, let assistive tech to present understandable
information to the user. API based accessibility to svg need to be
addressed. am working on it as time permits.
jg: authors will be able to check work.
wp: shades of color are hard to distinguish, need to be able to check
specific attribute information.
jg: need to address device independence/keyboard support.
wp: author gets to control what is able to get focus.
jg: need keyboard access for visually as well as mobility impaired.
wp: abandon "focus" and used keyboard to access all elements.
jg: we call those active elements, event handlers, and focusable elements
wp: directional navigation for document exploration,
dp: granularity, people who can see may want things to move differently from
those using a screen reader. could be set up to be configurable. Angular
capability is important for navigating diagrams.
jg: should provide an outline view, "flow div" provides linear reading
layout without compromising artistic intent. examples should include
accessible examples and renderings.
wp: need title and description for elements. need semantic information.
dp: approaching a "role" structure, to provide for different views
wp: "role" may not be best name, we are converting meaning. depends on use
mm: thinking more about parts rather than what role the parts play. picture
of house, or application interface can be built with svg.
jg: what would be roles
wp: depends on diagram
jg: hesitant to talk about roles, not sure how they work.
wp: already something there, link to external references in the svg spec.
jg: wp, does text outline make sense
wp: yes, number of places where you can include "title" and "description"
are very limited. can have a bunch of lines that make a triangle but noting
has a label, could use "group" and add title.
jg: for document structure and validation, the document must include a
dp: is there metadata containers for this information.
wp: yes, can include metadata but may not be able to link to other parts of
a diagram.
jg: need to be some overall description of diagram, perhaps leave it up to
svg wg.
animation has been addressed.
jg: captions and text descriptions of video and audio, could include smil
and other things. could use svg with timed features to create captions.
Should UAAG address this? may want to add to timed-text comments -
transformation of timed text into svg
jg: will send comments to group before sending to PF

3. Face-to-face meeting at W3C Technical Plenary 28 February -
4 March 2005
mm: too late to get on agenda
jg: who could go
pk: yes, and some Beijing.
dp: not sure, interested, but many factors
tb: not sure, financial concerns, would be interesting.
jg: will talk with mm

Jim Allan, Webmaster & Statewide Technical Support Specialist
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"I see the Earth. It is so beautiful."--first words spoken by human in
[Yuri Alekseevich Gagarin, from the Vostok 1, April 12, 1961.]
Received on Thursday, 18 November 2004 20:28:29 UTC

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