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RE: Contradictory/confusing requirements wording

From: Denis Anson <danson@miseri.edu>
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 11:39:59 -0500
To: "'Ian Jacobs'" <ij@w3.org>, "'Charles McCathieNevile'" <charles@w3.org>
Cc: "'Hansen, Eric'" <ehansen@ets.org>, <aaronl@netscape.com>, <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
Message-ID: <000101c0ab13$149066b0$17dcc241@deniscomputer>
This creates an interesting situation though, where a user agent would
have to have two categories of access: we have control via keyboard,
mouse, and voice.  We have accessible access via keyboard only.  I think
that this might be just as confusing.

Denis Anson, MS, OTR/L
Assistant Professor
College Misericordia
301 Lake St.
Dallas, PA 18612

-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-ua-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ua-request@w3.org] On
Behalf Of Ian Jacobs
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 1:01 PM
To: Charles McCathieNevile
Cc: Hansen, Eric; 'aaronl@netscape.com'; w3c-wai-ua@w3.org
Subject: Re: Contradictory/confusing requirements wording

Charles McCathieNevile wrote:
> So an alternative would be to split this into three requirements, and
> the pointer device and voice input bits input-modality labels.

Nope, that doesn't solve the problem because 
the input modality requirements apply to all checkpoints: you
don't need to put input type labels on any checkpoints because
they apply to all of them.

This is different from the content labels, which only apply
to some checkpoints (and therefore, they appear only on
certain checkpoints).

 - Ian

> On Sun, 11 Mar 2001, Ian Jacobs wrote:
>   Charles McCathieNevile wrote:
>   >
>   > I liked having the conformance section at the beginning of the
document. IT
>   > gives a simple way of explaining what needs to be read when you
are going
>   > through it, and makes it clear that conformance is something with
>   > not just an afterthought. (All the ordering stuff should just be
>   > but in practice it isn't necessarily. So there's my preferences).
>   We got complaints that people had to wade through the conformance
>   section before they got to the requirements. So it was moved
>   to the back.
>   I like Eric's proposal to have a brief statement about conformance
>   up front, and the full section in the back.
>   > As for 1.1 how about something like
>   >    1.1 Ensure that the user can operate the user agent fully
>   >        through keyboard input alone. If the user agent supports
input through
>   >        pointer devices or voice, ensure that the user can operate
>   >        the user agent fully through each of these methods alone.
>   I don't think this works.
>   That's what the document used to say. Then we got issue 390 [1],
>   where the reviewer said "This punishes me because it says that if
>   I implement the mouse at all, the user must be able to do everything
>   through the mouse alone." At the AOL face-to-face meeting [2], we
>   decided that the UA didn't have to do everything through pointing
>   device or voice input unless conformance was sought for those
>   input devices.
>   So instead of saying "if the UA supports input through voice and
>   pointing device", you would have to say "if the UA seeks to
>   conform for voice and pointing device", but no other requirement
>   in the document talks about conformance to itself.
>    - Ian
>   [1]
>   [2] http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2000/11/minutes-20001116#issue-345
>   > Chaals
>   >
>   > On Sat, 10 Mar 2001, Hansen, Eric wrote:
>   >
>   >   Maybe there is a way to have a summary of the that key
conformance bit early
>   >   (and perhaps even repeated) in order to address the issue that
Aaron has
>   >   pointed out. Maybe even go through an example, something like
pieces of the
>   >   conversation that Ian and Aaron have had. I am not excited about
bring the
>   >   whole conformance section up to the beginning of the document
but perhaps
>   >   some explanation could be put early.
> --
> Charles McCathieNevile    http://www.w3.org/People/Charles  phone: +61
409 134 136
> W3C Web Accessibility Initiative     http://www.w3.org/WAI    fax: +1
617 258 5999
> Location: I-cubed, 110 Victoria Street, Carlton VIC 3053, Australia
> (or W3C INRIA, Route des Lucioles, BP 93, 06902 Sophia Antipolis
Cedex, France)

Ian Jacobs (jacobs@w3.org)   http://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs
Tel:                         +1 831 457-2842
Cell:                        +1 917 450-8783
Received on Monday, 12 March 2001 11:42:33 UTC

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