W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-ua@w3.org > January to March 2001

Re: Making all interactive elements visible

From: Charles McCathieNevile <charles@w3.org>
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 10:18:33 -0500 (EST)
To: jon gunderson <jongund@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
cc: Jon Gunderson <jongund@uiuc.edu>, Ian Jacobs <ij@w3.org>, <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0103111015110.5635-100000@tux.w3.org>
No, I haven't, I was wondering if you had. (I don't think they are going to
do it, so I don't think we should be waiting for them to do so. I assumed
that if you thought otherwise you might know - for example following the
meeting. In any wevent, it is worth asking, I agree).

There is a point at which everything becomes proprietary - that's the line
between what is a standardisation issue and what is an implementation issue.
For example, the code which netscape uses to parse HTML is proprietary, even
though they make it available. We should not be specifying how to write that
code, just what it should do.

Likewise, it seems to me that the implementation of this requirement will be
handled y the User Agent as part of its implementation of standards.

Incidentally, at the moment there is very little code written to handle ading
listeners and so on because it is a new technology - the traditional,
device-specific HTML event model doesn't provide that, only the new DOM based
model.

Charles McCN

On Sat, 10 Mar 2001, jon gunderson wrote:

  Charles,
  Have we asked the DOM working group?

  Rather than have developers develop proprietary solutions, I would rather
  them work on open solutions.  How many authors add event handlers
  programmatically?  Probably not many.  Real doms also may provide this
  information, we should check.

  Jon


  On Sat, 10 Mar 2001, Charles McCathieNevile wrote:

  > Is DOM going to start including this information in a future version? I fail
  > to see why it would - it is a user agent issue, arising becuase the user
  > agent has to actually handle and process the DOM.
  >
  > Chaals
  >
  > On Fri, 9 Mar 2001, Jon Gunderson wrote:
  >
  >   I think for this version of the document we want to make sure we have good
  >   techniques to access event information.  In this case we may want to limit
  >   the minimal requirements for event related checkpoints to the information
  >   that is available in current DOM specs.  As DOM provides more information,
  >   we can then increase the requirement in a later document.  This stengthens
  >   UAAG requirement of using the DOM.
  >
  >   Jon
  >
  >
  >   At 12:47 PM 3/8/2001 -0500, you wrote:
  >   >Charles McCathieNevile wrote:
  >   > >
  >   > > If UAs don't keep track of the information, they will have a hard time
  >   > making
  >   > > use  of it.
  >   >
  >   >The DOM API lets you add handlers, trigger them, and remove them,
  >   >so the UA can do useful things through that interface even without
  >   >keeping a list of the handlers available.
  >   >
  >   >  -Ian
  >   >
  >   > > So it becomes an implementation issue. (That doesn't solve it
  >   > > though). In particular, how to make sure that these tings fit in a
  >   > reasonable
  >   > > navigation context is a question for which it would be nice to provide
  >   > > several techniques.
  >   > >
  >   > > (I have no ideas yet)
  >   > >
  >   > > Charles
  >   > >
  >   > > On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, Ian Jacobs wrote:
  >   > >
  >   > >   Aaron Leventhal wrote:
  >   > >   >
  >   > >   > The only problem I have with
  >   > >   >
  >   > >   >    A[onmouseover] { background: yellow; color: black }
  >   > >   > is that I don't think it supports mouseovers that come from script,
  >   > such as:
  >   > >   >
  >   > >   > function addMouseOvers()
  >   > >   > {
  >   > >   > var nodeList = document.getElementsByTagName('TD');
  >   > >   > var endList=nodeList.length;
  >   > >   > for (var count =0; count < endList; count++) {
  >   > >   >   node=nodeList[count];
  >   > >   >   // Using setAttribute instead of AddEventListener gets around bug
  >   > where
  >   > >   >   // the mouseover in the tablecell is ignored when you're over the
  >   > text inside the cell
  >   > >   >   node.addEventListener('mouseover',showTheSquare, false );
  >   > >   >   }
  >   > >   > }
  >   > >   >
  >   > >   > I think this will be quite common.
  >   > >
  >   > >   Per our discussion with the DOM WG, the DOM 2 event
  >   > >   handler registration mechanism [1] doesn't allow programs
  >   > >   to list the available handlers. So unless UA's keep track
  >   > >   of this information themselves, I don't know how to help
  >   > >   until the WG gives us this information (which we requested
  >   > >   at the meeting).
  >   > >
  >   > >    - Ian
  >   > >
  >   > >   [1]
  >   > >   http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Events/events.html#Events-registration
  >   > >
  >   > > --
  >   > > Charles McCathieNevile    http://www.w3.org/People/Charles  phone: +61
  >   > 409 134 136
  >   > > W3C Web Accessibility Initiative     http://www.w3.org/WAI    fax: +1
  >   > 617 258 5999
  >   > > Location: I-cubed, 110 Victoria Street, Carlton VIC 3053, Australia
  >   > > (or W3C INRIA, Route des Lucioles, BP 93, 06902 Sophia Antipolis Cedex,
  >   > France)
  >   >
  >   >--
  >   >Ian Jacobs (jacobs@w3.org)   http://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs
  >   >Tel:                         +1 831 457-2842
  >   >Cell:                        +1 917 450-8783
  >
  >   Jon Gunderson, Ph.D., ATP
  >   Coordinator of Assistive Communication and Information Technology
  >   Division of Rehabilitation - Education Services
  >   MC-574
  >   College of Applied Life Studies
  >   University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
  >   1207 S. Oak Street, Champaign, IL  61820
  >
  >   Voice: (217) 244-5870
  >   Fax: (217) 333-0248
  >
  >   E-mail: jongund@uiuc.edu
  >
  >   WWW: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jongund
  >   WWW: http://www.w3.org/wai/ua
  >
  >
  >
  > --
  > Charles McCathieNevile    http://www.w3.org/People/Charles  phone: +61 409 134 136
  > W3C Web Accessibility Initiative     http://www.w3.org/WAI    fax: +1 617 258 5999
  > Location: I-cubed, 110 Victoria Street, Carlton VIC 3053, Australia
  > (or W3C INRIA, Route des Lucioles, BP 93, 06902 Sophia Antipolis Cedex, France)
  >


-- 
Charles McCathieNevile    http://www.w3.org/People/Charles  phone: +61 409 134 136
W3C Web Accessibility Initiative     http://www.w3.org/WAI    fax: +1 617 258 5999
Location: I-cubed, 110 Victoria Street, Carlton VIC 3053, Australia
(or W3C INRIA, Route des Lucioles, BP 93, 06902 Sophia Antipolis Cedex, France)
Received on Sunday, 11 March 2001 10:18:35 UTC

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