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Re: Last call comments from WCAG working group

From: Charles McCathieNevile <charles@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:52:20 -0500 (EST)
To: Jon Gunderson <jongund@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
cc: Ian Jacobs <ij@w3.org>, WAI UA group <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0012071351190.8299-100000@tux.w3.org>
This gets to be an issue - it is not how I interpreted that document over
the last months. I don't see that it is a problem to allow conformance
claims, but there is the difficulty implied for developers taht I alluded to
before.

chaals

On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Jon Gunderson wrote:

  I think the conformance section needs to be conservative here.  If there
  are no standard I/O or accessibility APIs then the user agent cannot claim
  conformance with this document.  This sounds like a closed box situation
  that wendy[1] brought up earlier and I suggested that a different set of
  guidelines is needed in this situation.

  Jon

  [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2000OctDec/0368.html


  At 01:31 PM 12/7/2000 -0500, Ian Jacobs wrote:
  >Hello,
  >
  >After some discussion with Charles, it would seem that people have
  >different interpretations of checkpoint 5.4. The question seems to
  >be: Do UA developers have to provide access to ATs even when there
  >are no standard (system) APIs for doing so?
  >
  >1) For access to content, the answer is you have to implement the
  >    DOM, so there is no issue.
  >
  >2) For access to UI controls, checkpoint 5.4 says:
  >
  >     Provide programmatic read and write access to user agent
  >     user interface controls using standard APIs ...."
  >
  >    Does this mean:
  >
  >     - You must provide access using standard APIs.
  >     - You must provide access, and you must use standard APIs
  >       (when they exist) to do so?
  >
  >If the interpretation is the latter, then I think Wendy's question
  >is answered: UA developers must always use some API. (Talking with
  >AT developers to create a good one is, in my opinion, out of scope
  >for this document though a good thing to do.)
  >
  >Added as issue #457
  >   http://server.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear-lc2.html#457
  >
  >  _ Ian
  >
  >
  >Charles McCathieNevile wrote:
  > >
  > > On Wed, 6 Dec 2000, Jon Gunderson wrote:
  > >
  > >   Responses in JRG:
  > >
  > >   JRG: If the developer is relying on the VM for some accessibility
  > >   functionalities required by UAAG, the developer may only be able to claim
  > >   conformance for certain operating systems that they can demonstrate
  > >   actually meet the guidelines.  Therefore they may not be able to claim
  > >   conformance for every OS with a Java VM.
  > > CMN
  > > But they can claim conformance with "any conforming Java VM".
  > >
  > > Wendy
  > >   >It was my understanding of this section that if a standard accessibility
  > >   >API does not exist for an operating system, that the developer must
  > create
  > >   >and use their own.  This would cause an AT developer to learn a
  > different
  > >   >API for each browser on a platform that did not have an
  > accessibility API.
  > > [and good reasons why this can be a problem]
  > >
  > > In actual fact it makes life a bit painful for the developers.
  > Basically, if
  > > there isn't an API they have to make one. If there is, they have to use it.
  > > So if they start working on a system without one, and they make their own,
  > > and then a later version of the system introduces a standard one, they
  > cannot
  > > conform for the later versions of the system until they change to it. Which
  > > gives them a strong incentive to work with the developers of the underlying
  > > OS's, but doesn't just leave a requirement as vague as "work with some
  > other
  > > folks"
  >
  >
  >--
  >Ian Jacobs (jacobs@w3.org)   http://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs
  >Tel:                         +1 831 457-2842
  >Cell:                        +1 917 450-8783

  Jon Gunderson, Ph.D., ATP
  Coordinator of Assistive Communication and Information Technology
  Division of Rehabilitation - Education Services
  MC-574
  College of Applied Life Studies
  University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
  1207 S. Oak Street, Champaign, IL  61820

  Voice: (217) 244-5870
  Fax: (217) 333-0248

  E-mail: jongund@uiuc.edu

  WWW: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jongund
  WWW: http://www.w3.org/wai/ua



-- 
Charles McCathieNevile    mailto:charles@w3.org    phone: +61 (0) 409 134 136
W3C Web Accessibility Initiative                      http://www.w3.org/WAI
Location: I-cubed, 110 Victoria Street, Carlton VIC 3053, Australia
September - November 2000:
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Received on Thursday, 7 December 2000 13:52:22 GMT

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