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MINUTES(edited): W3C WAI User Agent Telecon 24 February 2000

From: Jon Gunderson <jongund@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 15:43:01 -0600
Message-Id: <4.1.20000224154114.00a428e0@staff.uiuc.edu>
To: w3c-wai-ua@w3.org
Attendance

Chair: Jon Gunderson

Scribe: Ian Jacobs

RSVP Present:
Dick Brown
Gregory J. Rosmaita
Mark Novak 
Harvey Bingham
Mickey Quenzer
Rich Schwerdtfeger
Jim Allan
Hans Riesebos 
Denis Anson 
Kitch Barnicle

Regrets: 
none



Action Items

Open Action Items

   1.IJ: Propose checkpoint to address event notification timing issue 

   2.JG: for 5.3: Find out windows/mac accessibility guidelines. 

   3.JG: Check with Ian about adding reference in 4.5 to 4.6 in regard to
stepping through animation/video/audio. 

   4.DB: Ask IE Team about publication of review of IE 5 and Pri 1
checkpoints. 
Status: notes have been reconstructed 

   5.JA: Rewrite techniques for 3.3 (see minutes) 

   6.MK: For 4.8 check if any media players do this? 

   7.MK: Find out techniques for sending text search requests to servers of
streamed text. 

   8.MR: Review techniques for topic 3.1 (Multi-media) 

   9.MR: Review techniques for Guideline 4 (Multi-media) 

  10.MR: Run a multimedia player through the guidelines for January. 

  11.RS: Take timely and synchronization issues to WAI PF. Get input from
MSAA developers as well. Craft email to PF WG with Ian 

New Action Items 

   1.IJ: Find out whether rendered content from style sheets appears in the
document source. 

Completed Action Items

none

Minutes

Next meeting: 1 March

Agenda [1]

[1] http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2000/02/wai-ua-telecon-20000224.html#agenda 

1) Continued Action Items

No change on any of these: 
1.IJ: Propose checkpoint to address event notification timing issue 
2.JG: for 5.3: Find out windows/mac accessibility guidelines. 
3.JG: Check with Ian about adding reference in 4.5 to 4.6 in regard to
stepping through animation/video/audio. 
4.DB: Ask IE Team about publication of review of IE 5 and Pri 1
checkpoints. Status: notes have been lost and are being reconstructed 
5.JA: Rewrite techniques for 3.3 (see minutes) 
6.MK: For 4.8 check if any media players do this? 
7.MK: Find out techniques for sending text search requests to servers of
streamed text. 
8.MR: Review techniques for topic 3.1 (Multi-media) 
9.MR: Review techniques for Guideline 4 (Multi-media) 
10.MR: Run a multimedia player through the guidelines for January. 
11.RS: Take timely and synchronization issues to WAI PF. Get input from
MSAA developers as well. Craft email to PF WG with Ian 

2) Adoption of Ian's wording for general access to content

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2000JanMar/0347.html 

Resolved: Add this checkpoint, but say "access to content" only (don't
emphasize "write"): 

     Provide programmatic access to content using standard APIs (e.g.,
platform-independent APIs such as the W3C DOM, standard APIs for the
     operating system, and conventions for programming languages) [Priority 1] 

HB: Is it a problem that there is not a closed set of standard APIs? 

RS: Do we want to say "standard or published"? 

JG: Express preferences in the document: 
- Expose information through accessibility APIs that are platform specific. 
- Use formats based on XML. 

3) Continue discussion of Jon Gunderson's Proposal to Resolve #190 and #203

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2000JanMar/0359.html 

Issue CR#190: Reduce the scope of 5.1 to say "write access only for that
which you can do through the UI." 
http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#190 

Issue CR#203: Checkpoint for access to content for non-HTML or non-XML WWW
documents (i.e. Shockwave) 
http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#203 

Resolved: Replace 5.1 with: 

Provide programmatic access to XML amd HTML content by conforming to the
W3C Document Object Model (DOM) level 2 Core and HTML module
specifications and exporting interfaces defined by those modules. [Priority 1] 

IJ: How do you define export? What's the scope of export? 

IJ: Is content source content or rendered content? 

Action IJ: Find out whether rendered content from style sheets appears in
the document source. 

/* DOM Level 2 CSS Module */ 

JG: Do we add a checkpoint to access style sheet information? 

JG: May be useful since the AT may want to access style sheets that aren't
used by the user agent. 

RS: I think that this is important. For example, suppose you had an audio
style sheet and the browser doesn't support it. You should be able to
navigate the DOM
and attach style. 

IJ: Pseudo-elements are not in the DOM tree. 

IJ: ATs definitely need to know 'display: none', for example. 

RS: You might want to set high contrast through the AT. 

IJ: But you also need to be able to do this through the browser's UI. 

IJ: I'm not convinced of the need to write styles. I see the need for
computed property values since the AT doesn't know the browser's default
value. 

IJ: This is tricky. We've talked about searching on rendered content. This
is source + style sheets + user settings. So you need more than the source
tree. 

RS: Add caveat that if a browser support style sheets it needs to do this. 

JG: That's part of the applicability clause. 

DA: Should we have generic language that requires access to the rendering
structure? 

JG: I'm afraid to refer generically to the rendering structure. 

IJ: 
a) You want to know what the host browser has rendered. 
b) You don't want to depend on that rendering. 

IJ: I think that the CSS DOM is not required for access by ATs because they
either should apply style sheets themselves, of if they are relying on the
rendered
content, the access to style doesn't matter. I think you need access to
style sheets, but not to edit them. 

HR: Suppose I'm interested in rendered data. When I change the style
sheets, I can make links stand out in some special way. I might want to
change the style sheet
to see that the rendering is a particular. 

IJ: The browser needs to allow this through user style sheets. But you
don't need to do this through the AT (programmatically). 

IJ: In short: You need the style sheets, but I don't think you need the DOM
CSS module. 

RS: Have a general requirement that for other supported DOM modules, to
export the information. 

JG: Do we need a requirement that the AT have access to what's really being
rendered? There's an issue of computation time required by the AT to come
up with a
rendering structure. 

MQ: There may be contexts where you want the source (plus style sheets) and
some where you want the rendered structure. 

IJ: How do you provide access to what's rendered? 

HR: Today, an offscreen model is used. How would programmatic access to the
rendering structure help ATs? If the AT only gets the full content, it has
to do its
own rendering and becomes a full user agent. 

DA: Can we talk about being able to write a style sheet? The Kurzweil 3000
is a screen reader/scanner for reading disabilities. Something that works
well: having a
word spoken and highlighted in the rendered document. Thus, the AT would
like to have access to the rendered structure. 

RS: One of the things the DOM WG is considering for DOM 3 is the concept of
views. Related to rendered content. Maybe we should leave this until then. 

JA: VIP Infonet already does this. 

IJ: Style sheets and rendered content are distinct. 

JG: I think that the CSS DOM module should be added as a P3 requirement to
allow ATs to know what was rendered. (For those UAs that implement CSS). This
will allow synchro between what was rendered visually and another rendering
(e.g., speech). 

IJ: I have doubts. 

Resolved: Add the following requirement 

Provide programmatic access to style sheet content by conforming to the W3C
Document Object Model (DOM) level 2 StyleSheet and CSS module and exporting
interfaces defined by that module. 

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Jon Gunderson, Ph.D., ATP
Coordinator of Assistive Communication and Information Technology
Chair, W3C WAI User Agent Working Group
Division of Rehabilitation - Education Services
College of Applied Life Studies
University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
1207 S. Oak Street, Champaign, IL  61820

Voice: (217) 244-5870
Fax: (217) 333-0248

E-mail: jongund@uiuc.edu

WWW: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jongund
WWW: http://www.w3.org/wai/ua
Received on Thursday, 24 February 2000 16:45:23 GMT

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