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MINUTES(edited): W3C WAI User Agent Telecon 27 January 2000

From: Jon Gunderson <jongund@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:00:33 -0600
Message-Id: <4.1.20000127155855.01a105b0@staff.uiuc.edu>
To: w3c-wai-ua@w3.org
Attendance

Chair: Jon Gunderson

Scribe: Ian Jacobs

Present: 
Denis Anson
David Poehlman 
Dick Brown (left at 2:30)
Mickey Quenzer (joined at 2:30)
Jim Allen 
Marja-Riitta Koivunen

Regrets: 
Charles McCathieNevile 
Kitch Barnicle 
Gregory J. Rosmaita
Rich Schwerdtfeger

Action Items

Completed Action Items

   1.IJ: Incoporate Ian's proposed changes to resolve issue WD#185 

   2.IJ: Incoporate Ian's resolutions for issue LC#142 

   3.IJ: Ensure that the link to the conformance explanation is dated.
Propose as a note to handle this. 
     Note: Instead, the proposed conformance scheme will be folded into the
Guidelines. 

   4.IJ: Edit techniques related to checkpoint 5.4 to reflect the possible
way AT can have programmatic access event information 

   5.IJ: Add a statement about orientation to checkpoint 5.5 on timely
exchange of information 

   6.IJ: Remove "and through an API" from 10.1 and 10.3 

   7.IJ: Make changes and add techniques from GR and DP to checkpoint 4.15 

   8.GR: Draft a short minority statement related to merging and priority
of checkpoints 10.1 and 10.3 

   9.DB: Schedule time with IE team for next tuesday when CMN will be in
Seattle to review the CR if ready. 

  10.DB: Find out how developers find out which appropriate triggers to use
in Windows for using built-in accessibility features (i.e. sound sentry,
show sounds, ...)
     Resolved through posting by Mark Novak
     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2000JanMar/0158.html 

Continued Action Items 

   1.CMN: Follow up on this with some learning disability people on
graphical configuration issue 

   2.DB: Ask IE Team about publication of review of IE 5 and Pri 1
checkpoints. 

   3.GR: Send to the list techniques for how to use and control focus to
not have new windows cause problems for usability. In particular, how this
will work with ATs. 

   4.MK: Find out techniques for sending text search requests to servers of
streamed text. 

   5.MR: Review techniques for topic 3.1 (Multi-media) 

   6.MR: Review techniques for Guideline 4 (Multi-media) 

   7.MR: Run a multimedia player through the guidelines for January. 

   8.MQ: Ask Mark about meaning of comment raised in Issue #167 

   9.MQ: Ask Mark Hakkinen about telephone browsers and the guidelines. 

New Action Items 

   1.IJ: For 4.10 add the CSS2 property. And cross reference 4.7 techniques 

   2.IJ: For 4.11 add the CSS2 property. 

   3.IJ: XWindows techniques for 5.3 

   4.IJ: DOM2 techniques for 5.3 (if any) 

   5.IJ: For 6.2 add a link to the TR page. Add links to conformance
sections in specs. Also to validation services. 

   6.IJ: Fix section numbering in techs doc in checkpoint 7.3 

   7.IJ: Ensure that checkpoints are in proper priority order. 

   8.JG: 5.3: Find out windows/mac accessibility guidelines. 

   9.JG: Send a list of questions to the ua list. 

  10.JG: Add discussion to next weeks agenda of how techniques are added to
technique document 

  11.DA: For 2.4, link to markup language specs where text equivalent info
is discussed. Include rationale. Point to WCAG 1.0 

  12.DP: Send comments related to accessibility problems of IE 5.5 beta to
the UA list. 

  13.DP: For 4.7. Note that setting the volume is different than
configuring. Submit technique. 

  14.JA: Submit techniques for 4.14 

  15.JA: For 4.8 check with Geoff Freed and Madeleine Rothberg, and copy
response to Marja any results. 

  16.JA: 4.14: There are CSS2 properties (including :focus). 

  17.MK: For 4.8 check if any media players do this? 

  18.MQ: For 4.9. Send a screen shot. 

Minutes 

1) Action items

1.CMN: Follow up on this with some learning disability people on graphical
configuration issue 

2.DB: Ask IE Team about publication of review of IE 5 and Pri 1 checkpoints. 

DB: IE Team and Charles and Dick, Tim Lacy, others met at Microsoft.
Reviewed all the checkpoints. The upshot is that IE isn't far from Level-A
conformance.
Keyboard-selectable text still not available. We learned that if the Team
decided to focus on these issues, they could hit Level-A. There was one
point where a
Power Toy was the answer. We may have better luck getting this list out
there. Rob Rylea wasn't at the meeting. 

IJ: Which version did you review? 

DB: I think we reviewed the 21 Jan checklist. Charles will send notes to
people in the meeting. We need to bring up-to-date the people not at the
meeting and get a
commitment from them. 

HB: Is IE 5.5 available? 

DB: It's in beta. No big differences w.r.t. accessibility. 

DP: IE 5.5 has real problems with accessibility from what I've heard. 

DA: One build may have problems with screen readers. Another build may have
fixed that. 

Action DP: Send comments to the UA list. 

3.GR: Send to the list techniques for how to use and control focus to not
have new windows cause problems for usability. In particular, how this will
work with ATs. 

no information

4.GR: Draft a short minority statement related to merging and priority of
checkpoints 10.1 and 10.3 

Done. 

5.MK: Find out techniques for sending text search requests to servers of
streamed text. 

MK: I haven't got an answer. Will move up my todo list! 

6.MR: Review techniques for topic 3.1 (Multi-media) 

no information

7.MR: Review techniques for Guideline 4 (Multi-media) 

no information

8.MR: Run a multimedia player through the guidelines for January. 

no information

9.MQ: Ask Mark about meaning of comment raised in Issue #167 

no information

10.MQ: Ask Mark Hakkinen about telephone browsers and the guidelines. 

no information

2) Candidate Recommendation update 

IJ: summarizes status of CR page. 

DA: How long is the review period? 

JG: Aiming for 18 February. Ending PR by the end of March. Have a ftf
meeting in April to process issues. Hope to go to Rec in April. 

IJ: I'd to get the WG to contribute to a FAQ as part of the later process. 

JG: I've been contacting developers 
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2000/01/reviewers-cr 

JG: One issue that they've raised is publication of the evaluation. They
want to cooperate but don't want bad press. I've proposed different stages
of response. I've
suggested that in lieu of a checklist, that they provide feedback. 

IJ: I think we could anonymize results. The checklist is important. 

DA: Down the road, the vendors who want to claim conformance will need to
give a list. 

DB: Yes, we will have to do it. But the problem is that once you have done
an analysis, you need to have your ducks lined up to address the issues.
It's true that if
MS doesn't analyze, someone else will. Thus, it's in MS's interest to do
their own review. 

IJ: Create a hierarchy of results: 
a) Detailed checklist completed. This helps the WG understand how the
document is being used. Make this list public. Include techniques! 
b) Anonymized checklist completed. Keep the developer's list confidential. 
c) Generic feedback. 

/* People indicate that this is reasonable to ask for */ 

DB: The checklist is very useful from experience. Maybe play it up more in
the document. 

HB: We should encourage developers to encourage techniques. 

3) FTF meeting update

JG: We have an offer from recordings from the blind and dyslexic (George
Kerscher) to host a meeting in April. 

(Note that CSUN is 20-24 March.) 

JG: I propose during the week of 10 April. 

DA: I'll be running a meeting the 14-16 in New Jersey. Prefer 10-12. 

MK: I'm not available the week of 17 April. 

DP: I hope we will have conference calls set up. 

JG: We'll ask the organizers of the meeting. I would rather people attend
physically and only use the phone as a backup. 

Resolved: JG will propose to Judy 2 days among 10, 11, 12 April.
Alternative dates: 17, 18, 19 April. 

IJ: Note that I'll be moving to California early March, so I may have some
available gaps during the first week. I'll also be travelling in Italy for
10 days in February. 

JG: Ian, please analyze your travel schedule to ensure that we go to PR
before 10 March. 

4) Looking for Working Group members willing to help developers review
their products

JG: I've suggested to developers that WG participants may walk them through
the guidelines. This is also very useful to the WG since it reveals points of
misunderstanding. 

Volunteers: Jim Allan, Denis Anson, Ian Jacobs, David Poehlman, Mickey
Quenzer. 

5) Special telecon with Assistive Technology developers on uses of DOM to
improve accessibility of AT 

JG: Would like to invite AT developers to discuss the DOM during 

CR. I propose the 17th February (just before the end of CR). 

IJ: On the agenda for the meeting: 
- What is your experience with DOM 1 and DOM 2? 
- What is the current status of DOM implementation in your tools? 
- What is your current implementation plan for the DOM? 
- If not, can you make a commitment to implement the DOM? 

JG: Yes, I think drafting a list of specific questions is a good idea. 

IJ: Have a demo ready that people can refer to? 

JG: I'm working on that. 

IJ: Also need Mark Novak and Rich on the call to talk about timely access,
etc. 

JG: Also, I intend to contact Hans Riesebos. 

JG: What about Unix products? 

DP: Peter Korn does a lot of work with Java. 

Action JG: Send a list of questions to the ua list. 

JG: Refer to list of AT reviewers: 
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2000/01/reviewers-cr 

JG: Please send additional organizations and contacts to the list. 

6) Review of techniques document 

JG: During CR, we will need to strengthen techniques for some checkpoints. 

IJ: Checkpoints without techniques: 2.4, 4.7, 4.8, 4.9, 4.10, 4.11, 4.14,
5.3, 6.2 

DA: P1 are the most important. 

Action DA: For 2.4, link to markup language specs where text equivalent
info is discussed. Include rationale. Point to WCAG 1.0. 

IJ: Refer to ER Repair information. Talk to Wendy. 

Action JA: 4.14 

Action DP: 4.7. Note that setting the volume is different than configuring. 

Action MK: 4.8. Do any media players do this? 

JA: I'll check with Geoff Freed and send to Marja. 

JG: Also, contact Madeleine since she has action items. 

Action MQ: 4.9. Send a screen shot. 

For 4.10: Add the CSS2 property. And cross reference 4.7 techniques.

Action IJ: Add these. 

For 4.11: Add the CSS2 property. 

Action IJ: Add these. 

Action JA: 4.14: There are CSS2 properties (including :focus). 

Action JG: 5.3: Find out windows/mac accessibility guidelines. 

Action IJ: I'll look at XWindows 

Action IJ: I'll look into DOM2 

6.2: 

Action IJ: Add a link to the TR page. Add links to conformance sections in
specs. Also to validation services. 

Action Ian: Fix section numbering in techs doc in checkpoint 7.3 

Action Ian: Ensure that checkpoints are in proper priority order. 

7) Discussion of "timeliness" and adding techniques to the techniques document

JA: I've discussed with developers how LPWindows is must faster with NN
than with IE. IE causes too much of a performance hit. 

IJ: Perhaps we need to distinguish in the techs document between "that
which has been implemented" and "this might work and we think it's a good
idea". 

JG: Yes, we need to take more care with what we put in the documents. 

IJ: I'd like to see: 
a) Techniques editorial cleanup. 
b) Techniques substance cleanup + markup of what's known and what's not. 
c) Future techniques will only be added according to those two categories. 

Action JG: Add discussion to next weeks agenda of how techniques are added
to technique document



Jon Gunderson, Ph.D., ATP
Coordinator of Assistive Communication and Information Technology
Chair, W3C WAI User Agent Working Group
Division of Rehabilitation - Education Services
College of Applied Life Studies
University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
1207 S. Oak Street, Champaign, IL  61820

Voice: (217) 244-5870
Fax: (217) 333-0248

E-mail: jongund@uiuc.edu

WWW: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jongund
WWW: http://www.w3.org/wai/ua
Received on Thursday, 27 January 2000 17:02:49 GMT

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