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MINUTES(edited): W3C WAI User Agent Telecon 7 December 1999

From: Jon Gunderson <jongund@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 09:30:34 -0600
Message-Id: <4.1.19991208092931.00c7fbf0@staff.uiuc.edu>
To: w3c-wai-ua@w3.org
Attendance

Chair: Jon Gunderson

Scribe: Ian Jacobs

RSVP Present:
Denis Anson
Madeleine Rothberg 
David Poehlman 
Gregory J. Rosmaita
Dick Brown (joined at 12:10)

RSVP Regrets: 
Mark Novak


Action Items

Completed Action Items

   1.IJ: Publish new working draft of guidelines on 6 December 
     http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/WD-WAI-USERAGENT-19991206/ 
   2.RS: Send last call document to IBM's Web Team in Austin. 
     Status: cancelled 
   3.MR: Review techniques for Guideline 3 (Multi-media) 
     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0647.html 
     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0648.html 
   4.EH: Propose new wording for Checkpoint 2.5
     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0597.html 

Continued Action Items 

   1.IJ: Review techniques for topic 3.2 
   2.JG: Review techniques for Guideline 8.3 to 8.9 
   3.KB: Update impact matrix based on 5 November draft. Pending 
   4.MR: Review techniques for topic 3.1 (Multi-media) 
   5.MR: Review techniques for Guideline 4 (Multi-media) 
   6.DB: Review techniques for Guideline 5 
   7.DB: Ask IE Team about publication of review of IE 5 and Pri 1
checkpoints. 
   8.DB: Contact person in Windows media group to agree to review last call
draft when available 
   9.MK: Write some comments on synchronization in multi-media to the list 
  10.EH: Refine proposal on the meaning of "synchornized alternatives" to
the list. 

New Action Items 

   1.IJ: Add clarifying Note to rationale that UAs can turn off control of
content even if it passes content off for rendering. 
   2.IJ: Send proposal to list related to checkpoint for incremental
positioning control in multi-media 
   3.JG/IJ: Publish F2F agenda on 8 December 
   4.JG: Send request for change in telecon time to W3C admin 
   5.JG: Request UA/GL/UA join meeting related to terminology related to
multi-media 
   6.DA: Propose rational to explain why deceleration of multi-media is
important for users with impairments. 



Minutes 

Agenda

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0629.html 

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0646.html 

REMINDER: No teleconf 8 December.

1) Review Open Action Items

1.IJ: Review techniques for topic 3.2 
Not done. 

2.IJ: Publish new working draft of guidelines on 6 December 
Done. 

3.JG: Review techniques for Guideline 8.3 to 8.9 
Not done. 
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/WD-WAI-USERAGENT-19991206 

4.KB: Update impact matrix based on 5 November draft. Pending. 

5.RS: Send last call document to IBM's Web Team in Austin. 
Cancelled. We didn't receive comments. 

6.MR: Review techniques for topic 3.1 (Multi-media) 
Pending. 

7.MR: Review techniques for Guideline 3 (Multi-media) 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0647.html 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0648.html 
Also: techniques for Guideline 4 (Multi-media) 

8.DB: Review techniques for Guideline 5 

9.DB: Ask IE Team about publication of review of IE 5 and Pri 1 checkpoints. 

10.DB: Contact person in Windows media group to agree to review last call
draft when available 

11.MK: Write some comments on synchronization in multi-media to the list 

12.EH: Propose new wording for Checkpoint 2.5 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0597.html 

13.EH: Refine proposal on the meaning of "synchronized alternatives" to the
list. 
Not done? 

IJ: See 6 December draft for editorial attempt a resolution. 

MR: I would rather see something about "synchronized". Video of sign
language may be synchronized. 

2) Announcements

1. RESOLVED: Telecon time change after the first of the year to meet on
Thursdays at 1:00 EST (USA) for 90 minutes. 

Action Jon: Please send to adminreq@w3.org. 

2. GL WG is rechartering. 

3) F2F meeting organization (15 minutes max) 

a) Last call issues. Refer to list and Jon's categorization 
http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0637.html 

b) IJ: Important issues that you want to see addressed at ftf? (None spoken). 

c) No objections to going to Proposed Rec after the holidays. GR: We'll
avoid the end of year Y2K hype! 

d) Other review comments. 

GR: Earl brought to the fore the issue of 508 decision-making. Opposite
opinion came up in ATAG review. In ATAG, concerns about application of
Guidelines to purchasing requirements. 

e) When building ftf agenda, think about which issues hang on
interpretation of specs. Take those to PF. 

Send ftf agenda items to the list. 

f) It looks like we will have phone conferencing at the ftf. 

Anyone here interested in calling in? 
Of those present, Madeleine would. 

Action Ian/Jon - publish an agenda by tomorrow morning. 

4) FAQ (for Recommendation time)

Refer to Ian's proposal. 

Please think of questions for the FAQ. 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0502.html 

5) LC#138: "Synchronized equivalent" v. "Continuous Equivalent"/ Proposed
split of 2.5 

http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#138 

IJ: Refer to how addressed in 6 December draft to use only terms "captions"
and "auditory descriptions" 

2.7 Allow the user to specify that captions and auditory descriptions be
rendered at the same time as the associated auditory and visual tracks. 

MR: Problem with this wording is exclusion of other types of synchronized
alternatives. 

MR: We might need joint GL/UA meeting to consider EH's proposal 

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0597.html 

MR: People haven't done the text-to-speech synchronization yet. 

Resolved: Need to coordinate meeting with GL WG. 

Action Jon: Organize meeting with GL and AU (asking in particular Geoff
Freed, Marja Koivunen, Gregg Vanderheiden, Wendy Chisholm, Eric
Hansen). Propose 15 December joint meeting during UAGL call. 

Action Madeleine: Send counter proposal to EH's to the list. 

5) LC#171: 3.4: What does natively rendering audio mean?

http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#171 

DP: Since we moved the definition of "native" to include OS features, does
that mean we can remove it here? 

DA: I think we meant in previous discussions that if a helper app is doing
the rendering, it's not the UA's responsibility. 

IJ: Do any UAs do this natively today? 

GR: If a plug-in manufacturer is reading these guidelines, mentioning
native support might help. 

MR: Suppose a mainstream browser encounters a sound file. If the browser is
calling a plug in, the UA should be configurable to not call the plug-in.
Or is the plug-in monitoring content for sound? 

IJ: I agree with MR. I think the UA can control on/off of rendering by
choosing to "display" or not. 

IJ: For the checkpoints related to volume (audio and speech), if you use OS
controls, then control of volume through the OS. 

MR: Also, background audio doesn't mention "native" either. 

DP: There seem to be a lot of things that happen where the UA calls
another. Is there a way to address these globally in the document? 

IJ: Comments on "applicability" welcome. 

DP: Gregory brought up interesting point about "autoplay". Many times an
applet will let you control volume. Are we controlling through this the
browser or the UA that content has been handed off to? 

GR: The latter. 

RESOLVED: (checkpoint numbers from [1]): 

1) UA has the power to turn on/off rendering of audio. This applies to 3.2,
3.3, 3.4. 

Action Ian: Add clarifying Note to rationale that UAs can turn off control
of content even if it passes content off for rendering. 

2) (Applies to 4.12 and 4.15). Remove native from 4.12 and clarify that
control of volume is possible through OS if the UA using those controls. 

[1] http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/WD-WAI-USERAGENT-19991206/ 

IJ: Refer to related discussion on "native": 173. 
http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#171 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0603.html 

MR: Seems harsh if the only solution is not accessible. 

DA: But if you are providing a feature, you have to make it accessible. 

JG: What if you're in X-Windows? 

IJ: I don't UAs to reimplement, but if they are using a feature to provide
a functionality, it's their responsibility. Maybe UA designers will ask for
more
accessibility in the OS. 

JG: So if the Mac doesn't support the use of keyboard to move among
controls in a dialog box whose problem is it? 

IJ: I think the UA, but I realize that you want to use system controls. 

GR: Take the case of HPR (native support for speech). The install is
self-voicing. But if you don't have NN installed, speech stops before that
point. Is
that part of this discussion? 

DA: There are third-party tools for the Mac that make it accessible.
("ClickIt" by Teletools (?)) 

DA: If the underlying OS is not accessible, your browser is not accessible. 

DP: But you can make it accessible through your own UI. 

/* DB Joins */ 

DB: I think we can live with with Ian's proposal. 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0603.html 

Conclusion: More discussion on the list. Discuss this at ftf with IBM Team. 

6) LC#135: Add incremental forward/rewind for audio, video, speech? 

http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#135 

Resolved: * No objections to "fast forward" to 4.10 and 4.13. 

MR: I thought "incremental" meant small discrete chunks. I don't think
variable speed of fast forward and incremental advance are the same thing.
Analogy: You want the page down key to move you in small chunks. 

IJ: Does anyone feel that this is a checkpoint level requirement: advance
advance/rewind in audio/video by N seconds (P2) where N is configurable
(P3). 

DP: I think P2 since without this, difficult for people with physical
disabilities. 

MR: I think this is more of a technique. It's also being done already. 

Action Ian: Send proposal on this to the list. 

7) LC#139: Need clarification of 4.11 (audio playback speed) 

http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#139 

Refers to 4.11 "Allow the user to control audio playback rate." 

IJ: TV's comment is that speed control for general audio not as important
as for speech. 

GR: Hard for streaming. I think TV's point is that acceleration is just a
convenience. Deceleration is different. More likely that people with learning
disabilities could use slower audio. Also some users with blindness. 

JG: It's possible to slow down streaming. 

MR: Do we also require adjustment for pitch? 

Action Denis: Write up text to explain why deceleration is important for
users. 

Resolved: 
* 4.11 is Priority 1 (Refer to Denis' action item) 
* Change language of 4.11 to refer only to deceleration of audio. 
* Usually Helper App or OS will be doing the rendering. 

8) LC#164: Proposed change to wording of 4.8 in last call UAGL. 

http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#164 

MR: Note that 4.7 could have captions. 

Resolved: 

     Merge 4.7, 4.8, 4.11 and use MR's language but talk only about
deceleration. 
     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0539.html 
     Add a note about distortion to that checkpoint. 
     Merge 4.10 and 4.13 and add animation. 
     Clarify that in 4.9, position means graphically. 

Adjourned 13:46 ET. 



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Jon Gunderson, Ph.D., ATP
Coordinator of Assistive Communication and Information Technology
Chair, W3C WAI User Agent Working Group
Division of Rehabilitation - Education Services
College of Applied Life Studies
University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
1207 S. Oak Street, Champaign, IL  61820

Voice: (217) 244-5870
Fax: (217) 333-0248

E-mail: jongund@uiuc.edu

WWW: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jongund
WWW: http://www.w3.org/wai/ua
Received on Wednesday, 8 December 1999 10:32:35 UTC

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