- From: Jon Gunderson <jongund@uiuc.edu>
- Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 15:07:09 -0600
- To: w3c-wai-ua@w3.org
Attendance
Chair: Jon Gunderson
Scribe: Ian Jacobs
Present:
David Poehlman
Mickey Quenzer
Kitch Barnicle
Mark Novak
Dick Brown
Jim Allan
Harvey Bingham
Al Gilman
Gregory Rosmaita
Regrets:
Rich Schwerdtfeger
Marja-Riitta Koivunen
Charles McCathieNevile
Action Items
Completed Action Items
1.IJ: Redesign techniques document based on discussions at F2F meeting
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/WD-WAI-USERAGENT-TECHS-19991029/
2.IJ: Update proposal for checkpoint 1.1 based todays discussion
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/WD-WAI-USERAGENT-19991029/
3.IJ: Add Note on proposed checkpoint 1.2 that it is a specialization
of proposed checkpoint 1.1
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/WD-WAI-USERAGENT-19991029/
4.IJ: Add an example of standard output to 1.3.
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/WD-WAI-USERAGENT-19991029/
Refer to RS's email:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0164.html
5.IJ: Add Note on proposed checkpoint 1.4 that it is a specialization
of proposed checkpoint 1.1
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/WD-WAI-USERAGENT-19991029/
6.IJ: Moved proposed Checkpoint 11.1 to Guideline 12 on documentation
and make changes based on todays discussion
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/WD-WAI-USERAGENT-19991029/
7.IJ: Contact RealNetworks to agree to review last call draft when
available
Status: done
8.JG: Include an annotation mechanism in current issues list mechanism
for last call comments
Status: Done
9.JG: Contact HR on Eurpoean reviewers
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0216.html
10.JG: Include an annotation mechanism in current issues list mechanism
for last call comments
Status: Done
11.JG: Talk to Wilson Craig offline about contacts for assistive
technology developers who may be interested in reviewing the document
during last call
Status: Sent proposal to send last call to all ATIA members
12.MN: Propose a new definition of active element, based on keyboard
navigation discussion at F2F meeting
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0173.html
13.MN: Repropose wording for Ian's proposed Checkpoint 1.5
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0201.html
14.GR: Send techniques for how to provide author info.
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0184.html
15.GR: Write a proposal to address issues about spawned windows
Status: comments are part of 29 October draft
16.GR: Repropose Checkpoiont 2.5 on user defined keyboard bindings so
that it's clear that there should be a cascade order whereby the user has
ultimate
control or can concede control to the tool.
Status: comments are part of 29 October draft
17.CMN: Send info about MS Word provides this information to users
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0178.html
18.DB: Contact Tim Lacy on reviewing guidelines with IE developers. Ask
him to wait until next draft (probably Monday)
Status: done
19.DB: Propose split checkpoints about configuration
Status: split on this call for highlighting the issue in last call
20.HB: Contact Steve Anderson (of Dragon Systems) to agree to review
last call draft when available.
Status: Contacted , but no response
Continued Action Items
1.IJ: Propose how the conformance checklist will be delivered
2.HR: Find information about European contacts who may be interested in
reviewing the document during last call
3.TL: Get feedback from MS IE Team on usability of 5 October Techniques
structure (wait for next draft).
4.MN: Contact someone at United Cerebral Palsy to agree to review last
call draft when available
5.MR: Working on SMIL techniques
6.DB: Contact person in Windows media group to agree to review last
call draft when available
7.MQ: Find someone from WinAmp, SigTuna to agree to review last call
draft when available
Status: still looking
New Action Items
1.IJ: Send revision of table checkpoint to the list AND include in last
call document
2.IJ: Mark relative priority of Checkpoint 6.1 as a current issue for
the group and we want last call comments
3.IJ: Prepare guidelines document for last call, based on todays
discussion
4.IJ: Prepare techniques document for last call, based on current
unprocessed techniques submissions
5.IJ: Make 9 and 10 December F2F meeting at IBM in Austin, TX
information available
6.AG: Send HTML discussion to list related to table markup
7.MN: Find a reviewer at Apple computer
Minutes
Agenda [1]
[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0217.html
1) Review of action items:
IJ: Deliverance of conformance statement
Status : None done.
IJ: Review of last call by RealNetworks:
Status: Done.
MQ: Found possible contact at NullSoft (WinAmp)
JG: Last call annotation in issues list
Status: done.
JG: Contacted various people: Hans (no news), Wilson Craig, Tim Lacy.
MN: Active element text:
Status: Done.
MN: Proposed 1.5 wording.
Status: Done.
Madeleine Rothberg: Still waiting for techniques.
Dick Brown: Proposal to split 10.1?
Status: For this call.
GR: Issues about spawned windows?
Status: Not done.
GR: 2.5 cascading order is subsumed by proposed restructuring and I have
techniques for it.
Status: Done.
GR: Providing author info:
Status: Done.
HB: Left message for Steve Anderson. No news.
JG: Sent email.
GR: I will look further into email for Foteos Macrides (Lynx).
2) Announcements:
1) 21 people have confirmed that they will review the document in last
call. More people still pending.
IJ: Please note that these people will also be good sources for press
support at Recommendation time. Keep the list handy!
JB: Linked from our home page.
JG: Anyone know anyone at Apple?
Action MN: Find a contact.
MQ: DialPad is a Web app that allows you to call on the Internet. It uses
plug-ins and is Java/Web application.
3) Netscape keyboard support page posted.
JG: Include in techniques document in some form?
4) Confirmation that old Guideline 2 (Keyboard) was deleted.
Resolved: Ok.
5) Issue 108: Table summary information.
JG: Should this be for all user agents or in the section on dependent user
agents? E.g., graphical UA conforms by presenting visual information,
summary info,
header info.
/* Several people felt it was a general requirement for user agents */
AG: Table content already covered by another checkpoint (2.1). What's
missing: 2.1 doesn't cover the *relationship* between the cell and the
header. The
proximity must show through when rendered to the user. You could include
"association" in support for HTML. I think the requirement in the area of this
checkpoint could stand to be clarified.
JG: Ensure that the user has access to relationships between elements.
AG: Yes, then line by line explanation in the techniques document.
MQ: Tables are so important that it's worth saying it directly.
KB: Is there a way to point out that the proposed table summary checkpoint
is a special case of access to content?
AG: Content includes metadata.
DB: Are we asking the UA to give info about a table on demand?
AG: Yes. (e.g., context menu).
IJ: Should this checkpoint stand on its own as a specialization?
GR: Yes, specialization of 2.1.
IJ: Goals:
a) Capture goal of making table understandable.
b) Make applicable to user agents.
DB: Not sure if proposal is specific enough.
IJ:
a) Should we be explicit in 2.1 or elsewhere that relationship information
in general is important?
AG: To be clearer about what you need to do (orientation), you need to
capitalize on relationships in HTML. And this is critical in the table area.
b) Tables:
IJ: Should we be vague (allowing binary verification, however) and just
rely on suggestions in techniques?
JG: Any objection to adding checkpoint as stated? It seems to hold some
info not in 2.1.
DB: Are we requiring the user agent to provide information that has not
been supplied by the author?
AG: The repair techniques are more costly to implement than to implement HTML.
IJ: I agree with Dick that the requirement should be for what is supplied
by the author.
Resolved: Incorporate proposed table checkpoint (without reference to
"selected" table).
Action Ian: Send revision to the list AND include in document (without
necessarily rediscussing on the phone).
Action Al: Send HTML discussion to list.
6) Issue 111: Relative priority checkpoints.
Refer to proposal from CMN on relative priorities as done in AUGL.
JG: I think there are very few checkpoints in the current doc that would
require it. Also, 6.2 (implement W3C specs) is priority 2.
DB: I think consistency between guidelines is a good idea.
IJ: I support this proposal for the checkpoint in question.
DB: I realize that there's baggage in trying to explain relative priorities.
GR: I see both sides of the issue, but I've had problems with the sloughing
off of problems to WCAG. Priorities in WCAG may be disputed there as well.
JG: We can revisit this in last call. May reconsider at the end to see if
the issue actually arises.
DP: We can also provide direction in 6.2 to the effect of relative priorities.
IJ: I can live with Priority 1 through last call, but I think Charles'
logic holds in our case.
JG: WCAG depends on some features of UA. So UA complying at level one
should allow those options to be available to them.
GR: WCAG is clearly transitional. There are many user agent clauses. The
user agent guidelines is more forward looking. UA needs to encourage authors to
use new features.
AG: It's proper for UAGL to assign something higher priority in user
interface than what WCAG assigns it.
IJ: I propose accepting Pri 1 for last call and raising as an issue in last
call.
Resolved: Leave as Priority 1 and indicate that it's an issue in last call.
GR: When you send out last calls, please include a reference to the issues
list.
Action Ian: Include this in call for review.
7) Issue 109/110/105:
JG: Issue of whether user agent should be required to provide information
about author-supplied configuration to the user.
DB: For UA-supplied, P1. For author-supplied, P3.
JG: Proposed: P3 checkpoint to provide info just about author-specified
bindings.
AG: It's important to know what will happen when you hit a key. It's not
uninteresting to know where it came from. It's also interesting to know
what's product
default and what isn't.
DB: So does this mean that 10.1 (input config) will remain P1 and will
include author-specified?
JG: Anything the UA can reasonably know about.
DB: I don't think that the author-supplied info is a P1.
IJ: For me, there's a minimum of making known that some behavior is
associated with a binding.
JG: So there is no consensus on 10.1 Priority. Possible candidate for
relative priorities.
JG: Does input configuration apply to other issues than bindings? Can we
solve the issue by adding a specific checkpoint to address that particular
concern?
GR: I still think that it's a two-part question w.r.t. accesskey: - The
specified key binding is not the only piece: the UA has to decide how to
support if. UA
needs to tell user how to invoke it. I don't think we should have a
separate checkpoint.
IJ: Where's the burden on the UA?
DB: Not a question of burden but of priority.
AG: Dick is saying it's not P1. Gregory is saying not P3. I would split it
as follows: If you do it, you must document it. There's also a question
about the priority
of implementing.
KB: I can see some benefit to knowing what's author-specified as opposed to
global.
GR: Please review my proposed techniques that I sent to the list (27 October).
Resolved:
1) Make 10.1 for UA-supplied configuration P1.
2) Add a checkpoint that's P2 for author-specified configuration.
3) Considering merging them. Should the priority of making author-specified
configuration be as high as user-agent supplied?
8) Going to last call.
a) Resolved: Go to last call 5 November - 1 December with open issues noted.
Two abstentions on decision to go to last call:
Gregory, Mark.
GR: I'm concerned that we've had enough time to work out issues.
JG: I'm only aware of two issues that are still open.
DB: I'm not satisfied that I've gotten enough input on this document from
the IE group. That's a problem of the MS Access group.
IJ: Note that Rich said ok to last call with current Techniques Document.
IJ: Note that new level of document maturity (Candidate Recommendation) is
likely to be adopted by the Advisory Committee during our last call.
Action Ian: Incorporate changes from this call.
Action Ian: Continue to add techniques.
b) Resolved: Structure of the 29 October Techniques Document ok.
9) Face To Face meeting
Action Ian: Make meeting page available.
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Jon Gunderson, Ph.D., ATP
Coordinator of Assistive Communication and Information Technology
Chair, W3C WAI User Agent Working Group
Division of Rehabilitation - Education Services
College of Applied Life Studies
University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
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Received on Wednesday, 3 November 1999 16:12:44 UTC