W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-ua@w3.org > October to December 1999

Re: Techniques for Technique 5.1.5 Frame equivalents

From: <thatch@us.ibm.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:29:53 -0500
To: Jon Gunderson <jongund@staff.uiuc.edu>
cc: w3c-wai-ua@w3.org
Message-ID: <85256801.00767DA5.00@d54mta08.raleigh.ibm.com>

Jon, it seems that the issue of frames is getting more a bit
confused. It really doesn't have anything to do with graphics.
Here is the way I perceive the problem:

When people who use text browsers like Home Page Reader
and Lynx visit a FRAMESET page, they must choose which Frame
to open. The choice is given with a list of the Frames. If theWeb
author provides a meaningful information in her markup, then
those users can make intelligent choices about which frame to

In a recent post, I commented my shock to find that neither Lynx
nor our HPR used title, so boldly advocated by WAI. We both
look to name if it exists. Lynx uses the name attribute or the src
for its list of frames; HPR uses the Title (element) of the frame page
and the name if the frame page has no title. I have not tried
pwWebSpeak yet, but your image suggests that that they use neither.

Here are some examples:

As an example of frame navigation, here is what Lynx presents
for the five frames at the, www.macys.com.

 FRAME: leftblank
 FRAME: topnav
 FRAME: content
 FRAME: bottomnav
 FRAME: rightblank

The words describing the frames are the values of the name
attribute on each FRAME element. These are informative, but
could be better. Next, here's the way Home Page Reader
sees the frame list for Macy's.

[Frame 1 (leftblank): Untitled]
[Frame 2: Top Nav]
[Frame 3: Macy*s Home]
[Frame 4: Bottom Nav]
[Frame 5 (rightblank): Untitled]

Home Page Reader opens each Frame Page, and inserts the
page title if it is available. If the title is not available, the name
attribute is listed (in parentheses).

Jim Thatcher
IBM Special Needs Systems
HPR Documentation page: http://www.austin.ibm.com/sns/hprdoc.html

Jon Gunderson <jongund@staff.uiuc.edu> on 10/05/99 06:04:52 PM

To:   w3c-wai-ua@w3.org
Subject:  Techniques for Technique 5.1.5 Frame equivalents

5.1.5 Frame equivalents
Checkpoints in this section: 4.12 and 4.11.

Some user agents cannot render graphically defined frames or the user may
turn off the rendering of frames through configuration for improved access
to document content.  In this case the user agent should render the
contents of NOFRAMES for the document.

Lynx is an example of a user agent that cannot render frames:

*** insert lynx example from 3.3.6 ***

pwWebSpeak version 2.5 (Release 14) is a speech based user agent and
indicates the presence of frames and renders the no frames content.   The
frames information rendered visually and auditorially through generated
speech though does not render the title or the name information associated
with the frame elements.  The rendering of title or name is important to
provide the user with access to descriptive labels for the frames defined
by the document author.

*** insert image finance-frame-pw.gif  ***

The following image shows a possible view of a graphical user agent if the
user could turn off the rendering of frames.

*** insert image finance-noframes-gui.gif ***

The image shows both the links to the original frames and access to the no
frames content.  Links at the top of the page allow the user to be oriented
to the availability of the no frames information and also links to the
frame elements.  The links allow the user to directly move to either
location of information in the document.  Access to the original frame
elements is important since many times the only information in no frames
content is a statement to the user to use a frames compatible user agent.
By making links to the frame elements available, the user still has the
option of exploring the individual frame elements.  The title attribute
should be used as the first source for a descriptive label for the frame
element.  An alternative source for descriptive label is the name attribute.

Jon Gunderson, Ph.D., ATP
Coordinator of Assistive Communication and Information Technology
Chair, W3C WAI User Agent Working Group
Division of Rehabilitation - Education Services
University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
1207 S. Oak Street
Champaign, IL 61820

Voice: 217-244-5870
Fax: 217-333-0248
E-mail: jongund@uiuc.edu
WWW: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jongund

Compuserve GIF
(image/gif attachment: finance-frame-pw.gif)

Compuserve GIF
(image/gif attachment: finance-noframes-gui.gif)

Received on Tuesday, 5 October 1999 17:34:30 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Tuesday, 27 October 2009 06:49:34 GMT