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Re: Opera Re: Conformance evaluations of IBM Home Page Reader

From: Gregory J. Rosmaita <unagi69@concentric.net>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 02:06:30 -0400
Message-Id: <4.1.19990831003757.00a7abf0@pop3.concentric.net>
Message-Id: <4.1.19990831003757.00a7abf0@pop3.concentric.net>
To: Charles McCathieNevile <charles@w3.org>
Cc: User Agent Guidelines Emailing List <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
aloha, charles!

i certainly hope haakon -- and glenn gordon -- is slash are able to help us,
because, right now, no matter what i set the tool tip to display, JFW isn't
echoing anything, nor is it reliably tracking the focus as it moves from link
to link

by the way, it took me quite some time to discover that the tool tip display
menu isn't in the "Link Presentation" sub-menu of Opera's "Preferences" menu,
where i expected to find it, but in the "Button and Statusbar" sub-menu, which
i further learned (by going into screen review and listening to things
character by character, isn't merely the button and statusbar sub-menu, but the
b u t t o n dash space a n d space S t a t u s b a r sub-menu, all of which, i
suppose, makes as much sense as this sentence...

the upshot is that there is a status-bar type display of the link tip text on
the screen, for which, i suppose i could set a JAWS monitoring frame
(automatically voice when content contained within 2 predefined points
changes), but to do that properly, i'd have to know how long the link title bar
is, where it is, whether or not it can ever be obscured by something else on
the screen, etc. -- and then, like as not, my monitoring frame would only
function with anything approaching true reliability if i always ran Opera (or,
rather, Opera was always spawned) in whatever window size i set the frame in,
and i don't know what would happen if the TITLE was longer than the available
screen-display space (i suppose i should have said "viewport"), and, well, you
get the point...

it'd be much simpler (in theory, at least) to get the necessary info (in this
case, the TITLE of a hyperlink) from a DOM call, but how i myself would get
that voiced from within Opera using JFW, i know not... 

anyway, no matter how i set Opera to display tool tips for links, they aren't
being voiced by either JFW or Window-Eyes, which, i, admittedly, am running
without a customized set file for Opera...

HAL, on the other hand, simply reads the hyperlink text, regardless of the tool
tip setting, so it is with HAL that i usually use Opera -- which isn't bad if
the point of the exercise is to keep up one's proficiency at using multiple
screen readers...


At 01:47 PM 8/30/99 -0400, you wrote:
>Interesting one on Opera. There is a configurable option about what
>is presented as a tol tip for links - nothing, the URI, or the title (I
>think). I imagine that is what JFW vocalises, but I don't know if there are
>multiple ways of doing it.
>Haakon might be able to tell us...
>Charles McCN
>On Mon, 30 Aug 1999, Gregory J. Rosmaita wrote:
>  aloha, charles!
>  you spoke sooth when you wrote:
>  >To take a more
>  >concrete example, I believe that Jaws for Windows will produce different
>  >compliance levels when used with different pieces of software)
>  one example can be drawn from the amount of information that JFW makes
>  available when the user tabs from link to link...  using JFW and MSIE (4 
>or 5),
>  if a TITLE has been defined for a hyperlink, one hears the TITLE text
>  announced, whereas in Netscape, the hyperlink text is spoken, even when a 
>  has been defined for a hyperlink...  moving from link to link using Opera's
>  native keyboard support -- that is, by using the Q or CONTROL+UpArrow keys
>  move to the next link and A or CONTROL+DownArrow to move to the next link --

>  neither the hyperlink text nor the TITLE, if present, is spoken... 
>  as one moves from link to link, only the content of the first non-active
>  element in the current viewport is announced ...  even when using a 
>  script for Opera 3.6 (such as that available from the JFW mailing list's
>  hyperarchive) -- so that one can TAB from link to link (a keystroke which is
>  second nature to most web surfers), and so that the current viewport is
>  automatically spoken -- moving from link to link does NOT cause any aural
>  output to be issued by JFW...
>  as for how this refers to the UAGL, (a) knowing where one is as one moves 
>  link to link is the basis of web navigation, and (b) i believe that exposing
>  the information contained within a hyperlink is covered by (amongst others)
>  Checkpoint 3.2
>  quote
>  3.2 For dependent user agents only. Ensure that the user has access to the
>  content of an element selected by the user. [Priority 1] 
>  unquote
>  References
>  1. pages that use the TITLE element in hyperlink definitions:
>          http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT/
>          (refer specifically to the use of TITLE in hyperlinks that refer to
>  defined terms)
>          http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/blist.html
>          (refer specifically to the introductory text)
>          http://www.hicom.net/~oedpus/vicug/index.html
>  2. the JFW mailing list pages:
>          http://yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au/~nallan/jfw/
>  gregory

He that lives on Hope, dies farting
     -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, 1763
Gregory J. Rosmaita <oedipus@hicom.net>
   President, WebMaster, & Minister of Propaganda, 
        VICUG NYC <http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/vicug/>
Received on Tuesday, 31 August 1999 02:04:27 UTC

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