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Re: "For dependent user agents"

From: Ian Jacobs <ij@w3.org>
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 19:27:54 -0400
Message-ID: <37C71EFA.16922034@w3.org>
To: thatch@us.ibm.com
CC: w3c-wai-ua@w3.org, jasonw@ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au
thatch@us.ibm.com wrote:
> 
> Ian, Point of information. Below you said: quote We have mostly been thinking
> about how speech and braille devices can switch dictionaries automatically when
> there's a marked up change in language. endquote. Which braille and speech
> devices do this?

I looked for information about this in the GL list and
found you and Jason White addressing the same issues in April ([1],
[2]).

[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/1999AprJun/0112.html
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/1999AprJun/0114.html

This is where the background information comes from. But I confess,
I don't know which braille and speech devices do this. Perhaps
Jason, or Gregory, or someone more familiar with the technology
can answer this.
 
> I continue to contend that this is not a priority 1 accessibility issue. For
> example, though I cannot understand Japanese, I can understand English when it
> is spoken by a Japanese tts engine - with difficulty. The same is true for a
> Japanese speaker; in fact it is probably easier fro them to understand the
> poorly pronounced English. Though I don't think anybody is doing it, I suspect a
> similar statement can be made for braille.

I'll add this to the issues list.

 - Ian
	

> 
> Ian Jacobs <ij@w3.org> on 08/27/99 05:30:24 PM
> 
> To:   Jon Gunderson <jongund@staff.uiuc.edu>
> cc:   Kitch Barnicle <kab42@columbia.edu>, w3c-wai-ua@w3.org
> Subject:  Re: "For dependent user agents"
> 
> Jon Gunderson wrote:
> >
> > Response in JRG:
> >
> > At 02:39 PM 8/20/99 -0500, Kitch Barnicle wrote:
> 
> > >I have been reading the guidelines with the notion that those check points
> > >that say "For Dependent User Agents" in front of them, only apply to
> > >dependent user agents.  However in several cases that didn't seem to make
> > >sense. For example why would  checkpoints 7.3, "Render content according to
> > >natural language identification," or 9.3 "Allow the user to view a document
> > >outline constructed from its structural elements." only apply to dependent
> > >user agents.?
> >
> > JRG: Natural language means that if the user agent can identify the
> > langauge of
> > the element content (primarily markup of the element) that the user agent
> > should render through speech, visual or braille that appropriate language.  It
> > seems to me that this should apply to all user agents, I am not sure why it is
> > just for dependent user agents.
> 
> I think you're right and it should be for all user agents.
> 
> BACKGROUND: We have mostly been thinking about how speech
> and braille devices can switch dictionaries automatically
> when there's a marked up change in language.
> 
> However, the checkpoint applies to graphical desktop browsers
> that support HTML as well. From the HTML 4.0 spec, section 8.2 [1]:
> 
>    > If a document contains right-to-left characters,
>    > and if the user agent displays these characters,
>    > the user agent must use the bidirectional algorithm.
> 
> [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/dirlang.html#h-8.2
> 
> In other words, user agents are supposed to handle bidi
> text correctly (although they may not have a font handy
> to display the text).
> 
> Furthermore, HTML user agents are meant to support "lang",
> presumably on screen as well as on other devices. From
> HTML 4.0, section 8.1 [2]:
> 
> > The intent of the lang attribute is to allow user agents
> > to render content more meaningfully based on accepted cultural
> > practice for a given language. This does not imply that
> > user agents should render characters that are atypical for a
> > particular language in less meaningful ways; user agents
> > must make a best attempt to render all characters, regardless
> > of the value specified by lang.
> >
> > For instance, if characters from the Greek alphabet
> > appear in the midst of English text:
> >
> >   <P><Q lang="en">Her super-powers were the result of
> >   &gamma;-radiation,</Q> he explained.</P>
> >
> > a user agent (1) should try to render the English content
> > in an appropriate manner (e.g., in its handling the
> > quotation marks) and (2) must make a best attempt to
> > render &gamma; even though it is not an English
> > character.
> 
> Presumably, this would involve choosing a suitable glyph
> for rendering a gamma.
> 
> [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/dirlang.html#h-8.1
> 
>  - Ian
> 
> --
> Ian Jacobs (jacobs@w3.org)   http://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs
> Tel/Fax:                     +1 212 684-1814

-- 
Ian Jacobs (jacobs@w3.org)   http://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs
Tel/Fax:                     +1 212 684-1814
Received on Friday, 27 August 1999 19:28:07 UTC

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