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Minutes from 14 July WAI UAGL Teleconference

From: Ian Jacobs <ij@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 13:50:50 -0400
Message-ID: <378CCDFA.BB5EEDCE@w3.org>
To: w3c-wai-ua@w3.org
CC: jbrewer@w3.org
WAI UAGL Teleconference

Chair/Scribe: Ian Jacobs

Present:

  Harvey Bingham
  Jim Allan
  Glen Gordon
  Rich Schwerdtfeger
  Judy Brewer (for charter discussion)

Next meeting: 21 July

REVIEW OF ACTION ITEMS:

CMN: Copy request send to blinux users for info about orientation
     to UAGL list.
       
IJ: Send similar request to IG. 
        Status: Not done.

IJ: Micropayments issue: 
        Status: Discussion launched with Micropayments WG.
       
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999AprJun/0258.html
        Action Jon: Take to CG and see what PF's role will be. 

SUMMARY OF NEW ACTION ITEMS:

 Ian: Send proposal to list to propose 9 July Draft (with
      today's changes) to IG.

 Ian: Add checkpoint about default keyboard configs not
      interfering with system conventions. (See details below).

 Harvey: Ask Len Kasday for links to pages where OS
      system keyboard conventions are documented. Also, send reference 
      to infamous 600 combinations.

 Ian: Propose rationale text for guideline 1 explaining relationship
      between input mechanisms and system conventions.

 Ian: - Fix section 3.1 conformance reference to Priority 1.
      - review section on "through other software".

 Ian: Ensure that discussion of face-to-face on next agena
 
 Judy: Announce new charter to UAGL WG with
       deadline for comments by email or in next Weds'
       teleconf. After that, take to w3c management.

AGENDA [1], [2]
[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999JulSep/0013.html
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999JulSep/0017.html

Agenda 1) Review of changes in 12 July Draft of UAGL

   http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/WAI-USERAGENT-19990709/
   http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/WAI-USERAGENT-19990709/changes

   Jim/Harvey/Glen read changes list.

Agenda 2) Proposed: Send WD to IG.

   No objections.

   Action: Send proposal to list.

Agenda 3) Review of keyboard proposal from Rich [1]:
       "Avoid default configurations that interfere 
        with system conventions."

    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999AprJun/0240.html

   Resolved: Add proposed checkpoint as Priority 2.
             Include an example (ctrl-alt-delete) after checkpoint

   Action editor:
     - Add this checkpoint
     - Add info to Techniques:
       (For Windows)
      
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999JulSep/0000.html
     - Add
fromhttp://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999AprJun/0240.html
           a) Navigation order
           b) Tabbing information is for for Java.
           c) Tab groupings

   HB: This suggests that we need to link to where special key
       definitions are defined.

   RS: OS-specific keyboard events are generally intercepted
       by the OS, not rerouted to applications.

   HB: But one OS's system command is another's application command.

   RS: This is all very OS-specific. More complicated on X where
       you have your own window manager.

   GG: MS has lists of "access keys" and "system keys".

   Action Harvey: Ask Len Kasday for links to pages where OS
       system keyboard conventions are documented. Also, send reference 
       to infamous 600 combinations.

Agenda 4)  Proposed Note for checkpoint 1.1 on device-independent
           input.

       
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999JulSep/0011.html

   HB: Do any OS do this?

   RS: Not that I'm aware of.

   GG: Windows 2000 is apparently shipping an on-screen keyboard.

   RS: This would be the first OS I know of that does this.
 
   JA: Some applications do this (HotMetal), but this is the
       exception, not the rule.

   IJ: Does the on-screen keyboard solve problems?

   RS: Helpful for mobility-impaired. For serial keys, you wouldn't
       be required to have an on-screen keyboard.

   IJ: Should dependent UAs be required to do this?

   RS: I think it would depend on the AT's purpose.

   IJ: For me, a conformance issue - do you fail 1.1 if you
       don't allow text input through the mouse?

   RS: Do you make the UA provide this or the OS?

   GG: The UA doesn't have to do this, but must be compatible
       with third-party software that does this.

   General consensus that UA shouldn't be required to provide
   on-screen keyboard. 

   RS: On-screen keyboards are important for some groups of users.
       Need to float on the screen without interfering with
       applications. Should be provided by the OS (in the future).

   GG: Why is this different from saying a mainstream browser
      should be a screen reader?

   RS: Right.

   GG: Don't need to say that every browser should be self-voicing,
       for example.

   RS: DOM is hard-coded for mouse/keyboard input. No abstractions
       for other input devices. In PF WG, we're working on expanding
       this.

   Proposed:
   User agents must be able to respond to any type of
   input generated for a standard device (e.g., mouse, keyboard)
   by the operating system or another user agent.

   Input device independence means "any standard input mechanism
   supported by the operating system". 

   IJ: What's the list of the input mechanisms?

   GG: Mouse and keyboard. Other input mechanisms use these.
   
   RS: What about PDA? Use their own system conventions, so ok.

   Action Ian: Propose new text for this. 
               Questions: OS-conventions only? "All" supported input
devices.
               JA: Do this in the rationale section.

   Action Ian: - Fix section 3.1 conformance reference to Priority 1.
                  - review section on "through other software".

Agenda 5) Charter changes [Judy]

   JB described charter renewal process.
 
   JB described proposed changes:

   a) Cosmetic (add links, some text, etc.)
   b) WG charter through May 2000.
   c) Deliverables:
        - Guidelines (in various states)
        - Techniques
        - Post-Recommendation report on implementation
          progress and recommendations for future work.
        - Meeting minutes
   d) Add comments about success criteria (deliverable 
      completion, implementation experience, or broad
      commitment to implementation).

  GG: Don't we have fewer and bigger players than WCAG?

  JB: Operasoft is very small but very serious about
      accessibility. Size doesn't necessarily matter - timing
      of release is important. You might want to aim for
      commitment to implementation.

   e) Dependencies/Relations with other groups.
      - WAI WGs are obvious.
      - Other W3C WGs, primarily coordinated through WAI PF.
      - Other W3C WGs explicitly: DOM, MathML,
        SYMM, HTML, CC/PP (content negotation model), 
        Voice Browsers, CSS. 
        (Judy will highlight PF involvement)

   f) Estimated Milestones
       Last call: End of Aug
       Proposed Rec: End October
       Rec: Beginning December.

   g) Communication mechanisms.
      To discuss at another meeting:
        - Proposed face-to-face in Sept or Oct. Need to
          make this concrete soon if desired.

      Action Ian: Ensure this makes it to next telecon agenda.

   h) Time commitment of participants

      - Active members of WG will be required to reregister as per:
        http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Process/#JoinGroups 
        (in response to the call for participation).

      - IPR disclosure required. (Probably not a lot of IPR clashes
        likely).
           (Refer to process document:
            http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Process/#ipr)

        JB: Are the guidelines drawing off of IPR of other guidelines?
            Doesn't seem to be the case. 

        JB: For example, a Member might disclose a particular interface
            they might have a patent on, but this wouldn't affect
            the guidelines.

  Conclusion: People are ok with conclusions about charter changes
              discussed.

  Action Judy: Announce new charter to UAGL WG with
               deadline for comments by email or in next Weds'
               teleconf. After that, take to w3c management.
Received on Wednesday, 14 July 1999 13:48:14 GMT

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