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RE: Block level elements (navigate by)

From: <thatch@us.ibm.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 08:45:51 -0600
To: "Denis Anson" <danson@miseri.edu>
cc: "Al Gilman" <asgilman@iamdigex.net>, "WAI UA group" <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
Message-ID: <85256732.00513948.00@d54mta08.raleigh.ibm.com>


A big problem with assistive technology browsing (and screen readers too)
is that there are too many commands, no one can remember them all. I cringe
at every suggestion of yet another navigation method or yet another
setting.

IBM Home Page Reader has a read function. We also have table cell, table
and heading jumps. But our (previous, current, next) structure jump is one
that hasn't been mentioned here. "Next structure" jumps to the first text
in a structure different from the current containg block. For this jump
here are the  blocks we consider:  Lists, Maps, select menus, forms, table
rows, other (body).

While I am at it, I will mention the most useful suggestion I have seen for
navigation with a speech (or braille) only browser. (This belongs in the
content discussion.) "skip over navigation links" is a local anchor at the
top of www.acb.org. The user hears it, follows that link, and is placed at
the "important part" of the page. In our new site we are developing for IBM
Special Needs Systems, we have that link associated with the top most
decorative graphic with alt-text, "skip over navigation links."

Jim Thatcher
IBM Special Needs Systems
www.ibm.com/sns
thatch@us.ibm.com
(512)838-0432



"Denis Anson" <danson@miseri.edu> on 03/12/99 07:47:25 AM

To:   "Al Gilman" <asgilman@iamdigex.net>, "WAI UA group"
      <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
cc:    (bcc: James Thatcher/Austin/IBM)
Subject:  RE: Block level elements (navigate by)





Al,

The "read" function is not part of the browser, but part of the AT.  No
general purpose browser "reads" the page, but being able to move the point
of regard (since many of the blocks don't take focus) to logical places is
essential.  Beginnings of blocks are good, logical places to begin reading.

Denis Anson, MS, OTR
Assistant Professor
Computer Access Specialist
College Misericordia
301 Lake Street
Dallas, PA 18612

RESNA
The International Organization of Assistive Technology Professionals

Member since 1989



-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-ua-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ua-request@w3.org]On
Behalf Of Al Gilman
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 1999 8:54 AM
To: WAI UA group
Subject: Re: Block level elements (navigate by)



I am confused.  Is there a "read forward from here" or equivalent command
in the command repertoire as you see it?  I suspect I have been assuming
the availability of such a function.  To me this is the function which gets
to all the content.  Because this process can be too slow, we add
requirements for navigation to get quickly to good starting points.

Maybe we should call it "linear readout."  The way I ususally interpret
"navigation," I would not call this linear readout activity navigation, but
limit navigation to stepwise motion without reading.

Al

At 05:29 PM 3/10/99 -0600, Jon Gunderson wrote:
>Thank you for your contribution to this section.
>
>I disagree though about removing the checkpoint.  I think we need a way
for
>users to navigate sequentially through each block of the document.
>Especially naive users need a means to easily move through all the content
>of the document.   I think this is a checkpiont for AT and its priority
>should be raised to priority 1.  This complements the sequential active
>element checkpoint.  If both these checkpoints are implemented the user
has
>a means with two keyboard commands to access all the active elements and
>the contents of the document.
>
>Jon
>
>
>
>At 06:27 PM 3/9/99 -0500, Charles McCathieNevile wrote:
>>I took an action to exmine the definition of Block-level elements in HTML
>>4, and discovered that they are defined at
>>http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/global.html#h-7.5.3 as
>>
>> 7.5.3 Block-level and inline elements
>>
>>   Certain HTML elements that may appear in BODY are said to be
"block-level"
>>   while others are "inline" (also known as "text level"). The
distinction is
>>   founded on several notions:
>>
>>   Content model
>>          Generally, block-level elements may contain inline elements and
>>          other block-level elements. Generally, inline elements may
contain
>>          only data and other inline elements. Inherent in this
structural
>>          distinction is the idea that block elements create "larger"
>>          structures than inline elements.
>>
>>   Formatting
>>          By default, block-level elements are formatted differently than
>>          inline elements. Generally, block-level elements begin on new
>lines,
>>          inline elements do not. For information about white space, line
>>          breaks, and block formatting, please consult the section on
text.
>>
>>   Directionality
>>          For technical reasons involving the [UNICODE] bidirectional
text
>>          algorithm, block-level and inline elements differ in how they
>>          inherit directionality information. For details, see the
section on
>>          inheritance of text direction.
>>
>>   Style sheets provide the means to specify the rendering of arbitrary
>>   elements, including whether an element is rendered as block or inline.
In
>>   some cases, such as an inline style for list elements, this may be
>>   appropriate, but generally speaking, authors are discouraged from
>>   overriding the conventional interpretation of HTML elements in this
way.
>>
>>   The alteration of the traditional presentation idioms for block level
and
>>   inline elements also has an impact on the bidirectional text
algorithm.
>See
>>   the section on the effect of style sheets on bidirectionality for more
>>   information.
>>
>>In an appendix to the CSS2 entitled a sample style sheet for HTML 4 to
>>following elements are given as block-level:
>>
>>ADDRESS, BLOCKQUOTE, BODY, DD, DIV, DL, DT, FIELDSET,
>>FORM, FRAME, FRAMESET, H1, H2, H3, H4, H5, H6, IFRAME,
>>NOSCRIPT, NOFRAMES, OBJECT, OL, P, UL, APPLET, CENTER,
>>DIR, HR, MENU, PRE, LI, TABLE, TR, THEAD, TBODY, TFOOT,

>>COL, COLGROUP, TD, TH, CAPTION
>>
>>from http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/sample.html
>>
>>The context was the checkpoint "allow the user to navigate among block
>>elements" (6.2.5 in the 9 march 1999 draft).
>>
>>My suggestion would be to remove this checkpoint since the required
>>functions are already covered by other checkpoints in the same section.
>>
>>Charles McCN
>>
>>--Charles McCathieNevile            mailto:charles@w3.org
>>phone: +1 617 258 0992   http://www.w3.org/People/Charles
>>W3C Web Accessibility Initiative    http://www.w3.org/WAI
>>MIT/LCS  -  545 Technology sq., Cambridge MA, 02139,  USA
>>
>Jon Gunderson, Ph.D., ATP
>Coordinator of Assistive Communication and Information Technology
>Division of Rehabilitation - Education Services
>University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
>1207 S. Oak Street
>Champaign, IL 61820
>
>Voice: 217-244-5870
>Fax: 217-333-0248
>E-mail: jongund@uiuc.edu
>WWW:     http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jongund
>    http://www.als.uiuc.edu/InfoTechAccess
>
Received on Friday, 12 March 1999 09:47:32 GMT

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