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Re: navigating Vs searching

From: Jon Gunderson <jongund@staff.uiuc.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:18:25 -0600
Message-Id: <199811111520.JAA04794@staff1.cso.uiuc.edu>
To: Al Gilman <asgilman@access.digex.net>
Cc: danson@miseri.edu, kitch@afb.org, w3c-wai-ua@w3.org
I think the type of searching Al is talking about is very useful in the
case you know what you are looking for.  But, we also want to help user who
are just trying to explore new pages, so searching just headers by creating
a list of just the headers is very useful.  The user can then sequentially
move though just the headers.  

The question I have is can this be considered a search or should we have a
different label like direct navigation?
  
Jon



At 10:06 PM 11/10/98 -0500, Al Gilman wrote:
>Searching only the header text or only the link text is
>potentially of benefit, but only after basic searching of all the
>text and navigation from hit to hit [probably starting with the
>user positioned at the first hit] is in place.
>
>Documents are a blend of form and content.  Very often what the
>author provides in terms of form by means of Hn elements
>etc. fails to expose what makes the content interesting to the
>reader.  In that case the reader resorts to content-wise access
>methods such as matching substrings.
>
>It is my experience that web wanderers who are blind use string
>search keys a lot to tell one another how to find something on
>the web.  I hypothesize that this is because the infrastructure
>of headers is a) not normally navigable, but more importantly b)
>not designed with the grain size of their display interface
>[roughly speaking the line, not the screenful] in mind.
>
>The content-addressed mode of getting around is generally
>applicable to all text, not just structured or hyperlinked text.
>As a result it is more universal and not dependent on the grain
>size of the display channel, so blind users fall back on it a lot
>because the headers that are adaptive for the sighted users don't
>perform so well in sound.  Higher levels of structuring get
>captured into the rhythms of one or another display medium.  The
>more primitive modalities don't, so their utility survives
>changes in the UI details.
>
>Al
>
>to follow up on what Jon Gunderson said:
>
>> I think we are looking for ways to navigate by content.  One way to think
>> of searching is to create a list of all the headers allow some one to
>> search that list of headers sequentially, by numeric position or by
>> alphabetic letters.
>> Jon
>> 
>> 
>> At 10:19 AM 11/6/98 -0500, Denis Anson wrote:
>> >Jon,
>> >
>> >I think we need to keep in mind the distinction between searching,
browsing, 
>> >and actually getting information from the web.
>> >
>> >In my doctoral course, Teaching and Learning on the Web, we are doing a
>> lot of 
>> >web based research for focus papers.  We look at resources on the web, 
>> >including on-line journals and the like.  We frequently read this articles
>> (at 
>> >least skim them) on the web.  If our navigation were combined with a
list of 
>> >links, we would be able to get to the top of the article, the bottom of
the 
>> >article, and perhaps an occasional internal link.  But we might have pages
>> of 
>> >information that was inaccessible to keyboard navigation.
>> >
>> >No, I think we need a way to navigate the *content* of the page as well as
>> the 
>> >links off of the page.
>> >
>> >Denis
>> >
>> >On Wednesday, November 04, 1998 10:45 AM, Jon Gunderson 
>> >[SMTP:jongund@staff.uiuc.edu] wrote:
>> >> I think the current guidelines put direct navigation into searching,
since
>> >> when it is discussed it usuaully refers to bring up a list of elements
>> >> (i.e. links) and have the user use a numeric or aphabetic key board
>> >> commands to move through the list.  I am not sure there is a big
>> >> distinction between this type of direct navigation and the general
concept
>> >> of searching.  It potentially may be an easier sell, if it is
discussed as
>> >> searching (since many user agents already have search functions) than as
>> >> some new keyboard based technique.
>> >>
>> >> What do people think about combining direct navigation with search
>> functions?
>> >>
>> >> Jon
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> At 09:12 AM 11/4/98 -0500, Kitch Barnicle wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >In the "navigation" sections  of the guidelines and techniques it
seems as
>> >> >though we primarily refer to sequential navigation. Has the concept of
>> >> >direct navigation been folded into searching?  To me the notion of
>> >> >searching implies an extra step. While I think providing multiple
ways to
>> >> >search for items on a page is important, I don't want to totally
lose the
>> >> >concept of directly moving to a link or active element. What do people
>> >> >think? Am I missing something?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >Also, I am not sure what 5.6.3 means, "Allow the user to search for
a link
>> >> >in the current document based on its position."  Is this guideline a
>> >> >substitute for providing numbered links?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >Thanks,
>> >> >Kitch
>> >> >
>> >> Jon Gunderson, Ph.D., ATP
>> >> Coordinator of Assistive Communication and Information Technology
>> >> Division of Rehabilitation - Education Services
>> >> University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
>> >> 1207 S. Oak Street
>> >> Champaign, IL 61820
>> >>
>> >> Voice: 217-244-5870
>> >> Fax: 217-333-0248
>> >> E-mail: jongund@uiuc.edu
>> >> WWW:	http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jongund
>> >> 	http://www.als.uiuc.edu/InfoTechAccess
>> > 
>> Jon Gunderson, Ph.D., ATP
>> Coordinator of Assistive Communication and Information Technology
>> Division of Rehabilitation - Education Services
>> University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
>> 1207 S. Oak Street
>> Champaign, IL 61820
>> 
>> Voice: 217-244-5870
>> Fax: 217-333-0248
>> E-mail: jongund@uiuc.edu
>> WWW:	http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jongund
>> 	http://www.als.uiuc.edu/InfoTechAccess
>> 
> 
Jon Gunderson, Ph.D., ATP
Coordinator of Assistive Communication and Information Technology
Division of Rehabilitation - Education Services
University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
1207 S. Oak Street
Champaign, IL 61820

Voice: 217-244-5870
Fax: 217-333-0248
E-mail: jongund@uiuc.edu
WWW:	http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jongund
	http://www.als.uiuc.edu/InfoTechAccess
Received on Wednesday, 11 November 1998 10:21:02 GMT

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