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RE: Speech Viewer for JAWS? [SEC=UNOFFICIAL]

From: Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 18:50:10 +0000
To: "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Message-ID: <HE1PR0902MB2219B04493C01267A839439BC7C50@HE1PR0902MB2219.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com>
Techsmith publish VPATs for all their products at https://www.techsmith.com/accessibility.html.


Although the Morae VPAT dates from 2004, the product has barely changed since then. The version history at https://www.techsmith.com/morae-version-history.html does not mention accessibility at all.

A quick scan of the Morae Manager VPAT (which is the Morae version you need to see the keylogger) shows that there are quite a number of features that will be inaccessible to some people. I don’t know how much that will affect different types of user, but my experience of VPATs is that they usually under-report the level of inaccessibility.

Another aspect of accessibility is the cost, and at £1,446.38 Morae Manager is not going to be affordable by everyone. I’m glad we bought it when it was “only” £800.

Steve

From: Sean Murphy (seanmmur) [mailto:seanmmur@cisco.com]
Sent: 02 March 2018 18:29
To: Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: RE: Speech Viewer for JAWS? [SEC=UNOFFICIAL]

The question I always raise. Are these tools accessible? ☺

Regards
Sean Murphy
Accessibility Software ENGINEER
seanmmur@cisco.com<mailto:seanmmur@cisco.com>
Tel: +61 2 8446 7751

Cisco Systems, Inc.
The Forum 201 Pacific Highway
ST LEONARDS
2065
Australia
cisco.com

http://www.cisco.com/go/accessibility


Think before you print.
This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender by reply email and delete all copies of this message.
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From: Steve Green [mailto:steve.green@testpartners.co.uk]
Sent: Saturday, 3 March 2018 5:00 AM
To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Subject: RE: Speech Viewer for JAWS? [SEC=UNOFFICIAL]

Morae and other usability testing recording applications have a keystroke logger that is synchronised to the video and audio recording. However, I may be wrong but I don’t think there’s any way to export it. Also, it’s only available on playback, not in real time.

Steve Green
Managing Director
Test Partners Ltd


From: Perry, David [mailto:David.Perry@humanservices.gov.au]
Sent: 02 March 2018 03:29
To: Sean Murphy (seanmmur) <seanmmur@cisco.com<mailto:seanmmur@cisco.com>>; Mitchell Evan <mtchllvn@gmail.com<mailto:mtchllvn@gmail.com>>; Wright, Isaiah <Isaiah.Wright@ally.com<mailto:Isaiah.Wright@ally.com>>
Cc: Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk<mailto:steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>>; Tim Harshbarger <tim.harshbarger.cqwg@statefarm.com<mailto:tim.harshbarger.cqwg@statefarm.com>>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Subject: RE: Speech Viewer for JAWS? [SEC=UNOFFICIAL]

I havent used any of these tools myself however I regularly watch online streamers – for example on the Twitch platform - use keyboard overlays which highlight the keypresses in sync with the live streaming video. Example software is OBS Studio and Nohboard.

Alternatively, having a camera facing the actual keyboard and recording the user as long as the setup (camera angle etc.) could capture the keypresses.
Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Dave Perry



From: Sean Murphy (seanmmur) [mailto:seanmmur@cisco.com]
Sent: Friday, 2 March 2018 1:31 PM
To: Mitchell Evan <mtchllvn@gmail.com<mailto:mtchllvn@gmail.com>>; Wright, Isaiah <Isaiah.Wright@ally.com<mailto:Isaiah.Wright@ally.com>>
Cc: Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk<mailto:steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>>; Tim Harshbarger <tim.harshbarger.cqwg@statefarm.com<mailto:tim.harshbarger.cqwg@statefarm.com>>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Subject: RE: Speech Viewer for JAWS?

I am not aware of any screen capturing tool which also captures keystrokes. This is what you are seeking for.

Regards
Sean Murphy
Accessibility Software ENGINEER
seanmmur@cisco.com<mailto:seanmmur@cisco.com>
Tel: +61 2 8446 7751

Cisco Systems, Inc.
The Forum 201 Pacific Highway
ST LEONARDS
2065
Australia
cisco.com

http://www.cisco.com/go/accessibility


Think before you print.
This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender by reply email and delete all copies of this message.
http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/about/legal/terms-sale-software-license-agreement/company-registration-information.html



From: Mitchell Evan [mailto:mtchllvn@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, 2 March 2018 1:01 PM
To: Wright, Isaiah <Isaiah.Wright@ally.com<mailto:Isaiah.Wright@ally.com>>
Cc: Sean Murphy (seanmmur) <seanmmur@cisco.com<mailto:seanmmur@cisco.com>>; Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk<mailto:steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>>; Tim Harshbarger <tim.harshbarger.cqwg@statefarm.com<mailto:tim.harshbarger.cqwg@statefarm.com>>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Speech Viewer for JAWS?

When I've observed screen reader users in a UX research context, another challenge I've run into is not knowing what rapid series of keystrokes the user just hit. We have video for touchscreen interactions and screen capture for mouse movements. I wonder, can one of these tools record all screen reader keystrokes interleaved with the speech? That would be the winner, in my opinion.

Regarding your last question. As long as the text is getting appended to a file in near real time, there must be a way to view it. Something like Unix tail | YourTextViewerUtility.
On Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 3:41 PM Wright, Isaiah <Isaiah.Wright@ally.com<mailto:Isaiah.Wright@ally.com>> wrote:
I just got this /z option working and tested it out during one of my feedback sessions. This will be tremendously helpful when I go back and analyze multiple sessions to look for usability/accessibility issues. Thanks!

I wish they also had a real-time speech viewer so I can see what JAWS is saying during an actual feedback session. Some of my participants are super users and use a very high JAWS speech rate. I struggle to follow along and comprehend what is being read. A live speech viewer can help me follow along and process what the user is doing on screen.

Isaiah M. Wright
Usability Research  | Integrated Channels & Experience
440 S. Church St., Charlotte NC 28202<https://maps.google.com/?q=440+S.+Church+St.,+Charlotte+NC+28202&entry=gmail&source=g>
T + 704 444 4694  |  isaiah.wright@ally.com<mailto:isaiah.wright@ally.com>
[image001.gif]

From: Sean Murphy (seanmmur) [mailto:seanmmur@cisco.com<mailto:seanmmur@cisco.com>]
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 5:34 PM
To: Tim Harshbarger <tim.harshbarger.cqwg@statefarm.com<mailto:tim.harshbarger.cqwg@statefarm.com>>; Wright, Isaiah <Isaiah.Wright@ally.com<mailto:Isaiah.Wright@ally.com>>; Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk<mailto:steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>

Subject: RE: Speech Viewer for JAWS?

As have previously mention, the /z option which does work in the latest version of Jaws saves everything to a log file. Very useful for debugging speech. Jaws from 18.0 and later is meant to show you where the cursor is in a web page. Not sure if the feature is on by default or not.

Regards
Sean Murphy
Accessibility Software ENGINEER
seanmmur@cisco.com<mailto:seanmmur@cisco.com>
Tel: +61 2 8446 7751

Cisco Systems, Inc.
The Forum 201 Pacific Highway<https://maps.google.com/?q=201+Pacific+Highway+%0D%0A+ST+LEONARDS+%0D%0A+2065+%0D%0A+Australia&entry=gmail&source=g>
ST LEONARDS<https://maps.google.com/?q=201+Pacific+Highway+%0D%0A+ST+LEONARDS+%0D%0A+2065+%0D%0A+Australia&entry=gmail&source=g>
2065<https://maps.google.com/?q=201+Pacific+Highway+%0D%0A+ST+LEONARDS+%0D%0A+2065+%0D%0A+Australia&entry=gmail&source=g>
Australia<https://maps.google.com/?q=201+Pacific+Highway+%0D%0A+ST+LEONARDS+%0D%0A+2065+%0D%0A+Australia&entry=gmail&source=g>
cisco.com<http://cisco.com>

http://www.cisco.com/go/accessibility


Think before you print.
This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender by reply email and delete all copies of this message.
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From: Tim Harshbarger [mailto:tim.harshbarger.cqwg@statefarm.com]
Sent: Thursday, 1 March 2018 5:19 AM
To: Wright, Isaiah <Isaiah.Wright@ally.com<mailto:Isaiah.Wright@ally.com>>; Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk<mailto:steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Subject: RE: Speech Viewer for JAWS?

JAWS does have a Speech History view, but it only records about the last 40-50 lines of speech and it isn’t displayed like NVDA’s speech window.

If you have the option, you might just want to keep an audio record of the screen reader output if not a video record of it.

Thanks,
Tim


From: Wright, Isaiah [mailto:Isaiah.Wright@ally.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 11:55 AM
To: Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk<mailto:steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Subject: RE: Speech Viewer for JAWS?

I just emailed them Steve. It looks promising. I can’t find a price tag on their website but I have a call setup with them a couple of weeks and I’m sure they will let me know what it costs.

Isaiah M. Wright
Usability Research  | Integrated Channels & Experience
440 S. Church St., Charlotte NC 28202<https://maps.google.com/?q=440+S.+Church+St.,+Charlotte+NC+28202&entry=gmail&source=g>
T + 704 444 4694  |  isaiah.wright@ally.com<mailto:isaiah.wright@ally.com>
[image001.gif]

From: Steve Green [mailto:steve.green@testpartners.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 12:32 PM
To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Subject: RE: Speech Viewer for JAWS?

You could look at JAWS Inspect, which is supposed to do this – I will evaluate it when I get some time. It’s not cheap but it could be worth it if you do a lot of development or testing.

https://www.paciellogroup.com/products/jaws-inspect/


Steve Green
Managing Director
Test Partners Ltd


From: Michael Gower [mailto:michael.gower@ca.ibm.com]
Sent: 28 February 2018 17:15
To: Wright, Isaiah <Isaiah.Wright@ally.com<mailto:Isaiah.Wright@ally.com>>
Cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Speech Viewer for JAWS?

Isaiah, please have a look at Speech History to see if this is something like what you're looking for.
http://doccenter.freedomscientific.com/doccenter/doccenter/rs25c51746a0cc/2014_12_3_using_jaws_speech_history/02_Speech_History_Mode.htm


Michael Gower
IBM Accessibility
Research

1803 Douglas Street, Victoria, BC <https://maps.google.com/?q=1803+Douglas+Street,+Victoria,+BC++V8T+5C3&entry=gmail&source=g>  V8T 5C3<https://maps.google.com/?q=1803+Douglas+Street,+Victoria,+BC++V8T+5C3&entry=gmail&source=g>
gowerm@ca.ibm.com<mailto:gowerm@ca.ibm.com>
voice: (250) 220-1146 * cel: (250) 661-0098 *  fax: (250) 220-8034



From:        "Wright, Isaiah" <Isaiah.Wright@ally.com<mailto:Isaiah.Wright@ally.com>>
To:        "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>>
Date:        2018-02-28 08:49 AM
Subject:        Speech Viewer for JAWS?
________________________________


Sorry for the double post – I sent my previous email with the wrong subject line!





NVDA offers a great feature called Speech Viewer which allows you to visually see what the screen reader is saying. Does JAWS have an equivalent to this? Through a google search, I found a thread from 2013 that suggested using JAWS Braille viewer. It looked promising but it only displays the first 40 characters of what is being read.



I am a user experience (UX) researcher and I’m conducting some accessibility testing on our site with real users. It would be great if I could read and save everything that the screen reader is saying. This will help me analyze what users did so that I can make recommendations to our creative teams on things they can change in order to make users’ experiences more delightful.



Thanks!

-Isaiah M. Wright



--

Mitchell Evan
mtchllvn@gmail.com<mailto:mtchllvn@gmail.com>
+1 (510) 375-6104
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Received on Friday, 2 March 2018 18:50:43 UTC

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