W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-ig@w3.org > January to March 2017

RE: Videos - do we need both captions and transcripts?

From: Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 20:21:59 +0000
To: 'IG - WAI Interest Group List list' <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Message-ID: <DM5PR03MB2780FC566530D2A859C2B5249B4F0@DM5PR03MB2780.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Ø  Transcripts (Scripts) [NOT time-synced]: Deaf-Blind

I second Gregg that a transcript would not generally be helpful to the blind or deaf except in talking head multimedia.  A transcript does not generally include the visual details that would be necessary for someone who is blind or visually impaired to understand what is going on visually.  A “script” as he calls it with a description of what’s going on is what is needed.  I find this to be a very common point of confusion.  I’d also point out that a lot of people think captions are accessible as text to the blind and deafblind and thus allow access to multimedia for these groups. In my experience captions are generally not accessible as text either.


Jonathan Avila
Chief Accessibility Officer
703.637.8957 (Office)

Visit us online: Website<http://www.ssbbartgroup.com/> | Twitter<https://twitter.com/SSBBARTGroup> | Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/ssbbartgroup> | LinkedIn<https://www.linkedin.com/company/355266?trk=tyah> | Blog<http://www.ssbbartgroup.com/blog/>
See you at CSUN in March!<http://info.ssbbartgroup.com/CSUN-2017_Sessions.html>

The information contained in this transmission may be attorney privileged and/or confidential information intended for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.

From: John Foliot [mailto:john@foliot.ca]
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 12:08 PM
To: 'Gregg C Vanderheiden'; 'Nimisha Joshi'
Cc: 'Janina Sajka'; 'IG - WAI Interest Group List list'
Subject: RE: Videos - do we need both captions and transcripts?

Hi all,

Related to Nimisha's question/comment:

> and captions are for synchronized

Both captions and video descriptions are synchronized to the "Master" timeline of the video: their utility is based on this synchronization. Transcripts (Gregg called them scripts, but I am unsure what his differentiation is, however the *actual* WCAG definition is for alternative for time-based media - https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#alt-time-based-mediadef) traditionally are not synced to the video resource, but (per the MAUR) should instead take advantage of semantic structure (good headings, inter-document navigation, etc.)

To be WCAG 2.0 AA compliant (and now, Section 508 compliant) you MUST provide both Captions and Audio Descriptions, whereas Transcripts is currently a AAA requirement (1.2.8 Media Alternative). However, by my observation and experience many organizations interpret SC 1.2.3 (Audio Description or Media Alternative (Prerecorded)) as saying that *IF* you provide the Transcript, that it meets the "Media Alternative" portion of that SC. This is due in part to the fact that a) WCAG 2.0 calls for "audio" descriptions (and does not contemplate text-based descriptions), and b) creating audio descriptions is rather burdensome and expensive today (even though it remains the preferred solution for the primary constituent group: non-sighted users).

So… to be "fully inclusive" you should have the following (I am indicating the Primary constituent group, but caveat that it impacts other users as well):

·         Captions [time-synced]: Deaf/HoH, Cognitive (includes non-native language speakers as well)

·         Descriptions [time-synced]: Blind

·         Transcripts (Scripts) [NOT time-synced]: Deaf-Blind

I'll also second Janina on referencing the MAUR for more background and explanation of these user-requirements (above and beyond what WCAG 2.0 provides).



From: Gregg C Vanderheiden [mailto:greggvan@umd.edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 4:16 PM
To: Nimisha Joshi
Cc: Janina Sajka; IG - WAI Interest Group List list
Subject: Re: Videos - do we need both captions and transcripts?

actually to support everyone - you need scripts - not just transcripts.

transcripts of the audio mixed with full descriptions of the video.

Very hard to do

Gregg C Vanderheiden

On Feb 2, 2017, at 10:39 PM, Nimisha Joshi <nimisha.joshi@northwestern.edu<mailto:nimisha.joshi@northwestern.edu>> wrote:

Hi Janina,

What you said about the use of transcripts for speed reading makes sense and I don’t think I need to see the meeting minutes.

Thanks for a quick response and I appreciate your advice.


From: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net<mailto:janina@rednote.net>>
Date: Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 3:33 PM
To: Nimisha Joshi <nimisha.joshi@northwestern.edu<mailto:nimisha.joshi@northwestern.edu>>
Cc: "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>>
Subject: Re: Videos - do we need both captions and transcripts?

In order to support as many users as possible, yes.

You might also note that transcripts are sometimes referenced by persons
without disabilities who want to speed read through content--or to skim
the content. This use case came up during our discussions in the HTML
Working Group prior to the release of HTML 5.0. Let me know if you need
a reference to those minutes, and I'll dig them up for you. This use
case isn't noted in the Media Accessibility User Requirements (MAUR)
note simply because it's not an accessibility use case in the
traditional sense.


Nimisha Joshi writes:
Going by this, we DO need transcripts for all audio video content, right?
From: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net<mailto:janina@rednote.net>>
Date: Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 2:41 PM
To: Nimisha Joshi <nimisha.joshi@northwestern.edu<mailto:nimisha.joshi@northwestern.edu>>
Cc: "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>>
Subject: Re: Videos - do we need both captions and transcripts?
It's generally expected that people requiring captions aren't hearing
audio content, but are seing visual content.
Therefore, transcript is specified to support those who neither see nor
Nimisha Joshi writes:
Hello All,
I have a super elementary question, what is the difference between prerecorded and synchronized video?  From what I can gather, it seems there is a level of interaction with synchronized video, like online tutorials or eLearning. Am I close?
Transcript are for prerecorded (according to this Section 508 checklist item 2.2<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.hhs.gov_web_section-2D508_making-2Dfiles-2Daccessible_checklist_html_index.html-3Flanguage-3Des&d=CwIBAw&c=yHlS04HhBraes5BQ9ueu5zKhE7rtNXt_d012z2PA6ws&r=8bgih609kFGNd3KTkZvS4SD8-_hY6QELODIGc63wIuE&m=uPDIur_EoYK7Iw8mT-FYh7DSzJhX4R9KHvIkQZdqkho&s=c8imw3CZmw7WrZWTSwzLD855OszQZMMg0s5Q7PGxQNw&e=><https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.hhs.gov_web_section-2D508_making-2Dfiles-2Daccessible_checklist_html_index.html-3Flanguage-3Des&d=CwIBAw&c=yHlS04HhBraes5BQ9ueu5zKhE7rtNXt_d012z2PA6ws&r=8bgih609kFGNd3KTkZvS4SD8-_hY6QELODIGc63wIuE&m=uPDIur_EoYK7Iw8mT-FYh7DSzJhX4R9KHvIkQZdqkho&s=c8imw3CZmw7WrZWTSwzLD855OszQZMMg0s5Q7PGxQNw&e=%3e>) and captions are for synchronized (checklist item 2.3).
If this is irrelevant and you advise using captions for all video content (except for a silent movie, of course) or if we need both captions and transcripts?
Thank you again for all your advice.
Janina Sajka,   Phone: +1.443.300.2200
                         Email:  janina@rednote.net<mailto:janina@rednote.net><mailto:janina@rednote.net>
Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:    https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__a11y.org&d=CwIBAw&c=yHlS04HhBraes5BQ9ueu5zKhE7rtNXt_d012z2PA6ws&r=8bgih609kFGNd3KTkZvS4SD8-_hY6QELODIGc63wIuE&m=uPDIur_EoYK7Iw8mT-FYh7DSzJhX4R9KHvIkQZdqkho&s=8HQ9hcZpRwD9nQJBi21gpHBcGca5qfoTucvlz42u_zg&e=

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures        https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.w3.org_wai_apa&d=CwIBAw&c=yHlS04HhBraes5BQ9ueu5zKhE7rtNXt_d012z2PA6ws&r=8bgih609kFGNd3KTkZvS4SD8-_hY6QELODIGc63wIuE&m=uPDIur_EoYK7Iw8mT-FYh7DSzJhX4R9KHvIkQZdqkho&s=JmIWN0a1mbinqjyPExhkBUO8kX31qaFrOultUBHRDUQ&e=


Janina Sajka,   Phone: +1.443.300.2200
                        Email:  janina@rednote.net<mailto:janina@rednote.net>

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:    https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__a11y.org&d=CwIBAw&c=yHlS04HhBraes5BQ9ueu5zKhE7rtNXt_d012z2PA6ws&r=8bgih609kFGNd3KTkZvS4SD8-_hY6QELODIGc63wIuE&m=LwTpSuEGc68WKXX5ZGmzHSdCTI5NUeagaXEqT_Mdi-g&s=s5hs-EZNHPcz1FLq1gOrIhAJN7lzUHClnlth89sxT0c&e=

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures        https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.w3.org_wai_apa&d=CwIBAw&c=yHlS04HhBraes5BQ9ueu5zKhE7rtNXt_d012z2PA6ws&r=8bgih609kFGNd3KTkZvS4SD8-_hY6QELODIGc63wIuE&m=LwTpSuEGc68WKXX5ZGmzHSdCTI5NUeagaXEqT_Mdi-g&s=e5DZX8Ccy1T3klqe-TwGQ29gEEIRda_6kCW-LWzFdAo&e=

Received on Friday, 3 February 2017 20:22:36 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Friday, 3 February 2017 20:22:37 UTC