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RE: Question: Key Operation of Dropdown menu

From: Tanaka, Satoko <sako-t@jp.fujitsu.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 04:33:52 +0000
To: "Sean Murphy (seanmmur)" <seanmmur@cisco.com>, "Cohn, Jonathan" <jcohn@air.org>, Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>, "Jonathan Avila" <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>, WAI IG <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Message-ID: <BEC8082DDC8CFF4797A2490179010BAB6EA6E84B@G01JPEXMBKW04>
Thank you Murphy. It’s helpful. I’ll check them later.

Many thanks and kind regards,
Satoko

From: Sean Murphy (seanmmur) [mailto:seanmmur@cisco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 9:08 AM
To: Tanaka, Satoko/田中 智子; Cohn, Jonathan; Bryan Garaventa; Jonathan Avila; WAI IG
Subject: RE: Question: Key Operation of Dropdown menu

Satoko

Jaws for Japanese web site:
http://www.extra.co.jp/jaws/index.html

NVDA Japanese site:
https://www.nvda.jp/en/


Refer to the above two windows screen reader’s site for more information.

Sean Murphy
Accessibility Software engineer
seanmmur@cisco.com<mailto:seanmmur@cisco.com>
Tel: +61 2 8446 7751      Cisco Systems, Inc.
The Forum 201 Pacific Highway
ST LEONARDS
2065
Australia
cisco.com

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From: Tanaka, Satoko [mailto:sako-t@jp.fujitsu.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 26 July 2016 9:35 AM
To: Cohn, Jonathan <jcohn@air.org<mailto:jcohn@air.org>>; Sean Murphy (seanmmur) <seanmmur@cisco.com<mailto:seanmmur@cisco.com>>; Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>>; Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>>; WAI IG <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>>
Subject: RE: Question: Key Operation of Dropdown menu

Thank you, Murphy and Jonathan. Those information are very helpful.
I have no specific question about multi-byte environment. I just want to know something new for me, if someone has useful information and knowledge about screen readers on multi-byte environment. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. it is so helpful.

Many thanks and kind regards,
Satoko

From: Cohn, Jonathan [mailto:jcohn@air.org]
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 12:16 AM
To: Sean Murphy (seanmmur); Tanaka, Satoko/田中 智子; Bryan Garaventa; Jonathan Avila; WAI IG
Subject: RE: Question: Key Operation of Dropdown menu

VoiceOver also has no issues with multibyte. One does have to make  sure the lang attribute is set correctly in the HTML.

Over the weekend, I read an article from a Korean  company where even though the specific page was in English, VoiceOver (on IOS) started reading it in Korean.



From: Sean Murphy (seanmmur) [mailto:seanmmur@cisco.com]
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 2:23 AM
To: Tanaka, Satoko <sako-t@jp.fujitsu.com<mailto:sako-t@jp.fujitsu.com>>; Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>>; Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>>; WAI IG <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>>
Subject: RE: Question: Key Operation of Dropdown menu


What specific questions do you have in relation to screen reader support with multi-byte language screen reader’s? As I know Jaws for Windows does support Japanese and believe other Asian languages as well. I suspect Voice-Over also does and haven’t looked into it.

Sean Murphy

From: Tanaka, Satoko [mailto:sako-t@jp.fujitsu.com]
Sent: Friday, 22 July 2016 5:29 PM
To: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>>; Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>>; WAI IG <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>>
Subject: RE: Question: Key Operation of Dropdown menu

That’s great. Thank you for the explanation, Bryan. Much appreciated!
If someone knows about screen reader’s behaviors on multi-byte-language environments, any comments and advices would be appreciated. :) Thank you!

Many thanks and kind regards,
Satoko

From: Bryan Garaventa [mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com]
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2016 4:11 PM
To: Tanaka, Satoko/田中 智子; Jonathan Avila; WAI IG
Subject: RE: Question: Key Operation of Dropdown menu

When I wrote these articles I was using the English versions of these programs, however the underlying functionality would be the same regardless. For example, the way that VoiceOver works by touch is the same in English as it is when using any other language that iOS supports, as well as for JAWS and all of the languages that it supports on Windows, and so on.

There might be some differences in some languages that use right to left language displays, but the input and output of the base platforms should remain consistent. Others here may be able to elaborate more on how this works in the background for Japanese and Chinese language interaction models though.

All the best,
Bryan


Bryan Garaventa
Accessibility Fellow
SSB BART Group, Inc.
bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>
415.624.2709 (o)
www.SSBBartGroup.com<http://www.SSBBartGroup.com>

From: Tanaka, Satoko [mailto:sako-t@jp.fujitsu.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2016 11:03 PM
To: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>>; Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>>; WAI IG <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>>
Subject: RE: Question: Key Operation of Dropdown menu

Hi Bryan,

Thank you so much for the information. It is actually helpful.
Are these articles about English version of screen readers? I mean, do you know whether there are any differences in their behaviors between English environment and other environment, such as Japanese and Chines?

Many thanks and kind regards,
Satoko

From: Bryan Garaventa [mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com]
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2016 1:30 PM
To: Tanaka, Satoko/田中 智子; Jonathan Avila; WAI IG
Subject: RE: Question: Key Operation of Dropdown menu

Hi Satoko,
It may be helpful to read the screen reader sections at
http://whatsock.com/training/#hd32

This covers how JAWS and NVDA work on desktops plus VoiceOver on iOS and how these screen readers differ with regard to interaction and accessibility.

All the best,
Bryan


Bryan Garaventa
Accessibility Fellow
SSB BART Group, Inc.
bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>
415.624.2709 (o)
www.SSBBartGroup.com<http://www.SSBBartGroup.com>

From: Tanaka, Satoko [mailto:sako-t@jp.fujitsu.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 5:55 PM
To: Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>>; WAI IG <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>>
Subject: RE: Question: Key Operation of Dropdown menu

Hi Jonathan,

Thank you for summarizing the key points. It makes sense for me.
The last part of your comment, I cannot understand clearly the situation of Safari on mobile. Do you mean mobile version of Safari does not recognize keyboard connection, which means users cannot operate the mobile Safari with keyboard?
It seems I should learn more about mobile accessibility. If you would kindly explain more details, it would be highly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Many thanks and kind regards,
Satoko

From: Jonathan Avila [mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 10:52 PM
To: WAI IG
Subject: RE: Question: Key Operation of Dropdown menu

Satoko, in short it think what Bryan is getting at is it’s ok to rely on arrow keys for desktop as long as the proper ARIA roles are there that would allow these keys to be sent from desktop screen readers and would be assumed by the user based on the appropriate roles.  If the appropriate roles are not used use of only arrow keys would likely not be available to desktop screen reader users and may not be apparent for use even if the user was an advanced screen reader user.  On mobile you will likely have a different situation as some browsers like Safari do not pass keystrokes through from the keyboard to the web page.

Jonathan

Jonathan Avila
Chief Accessibility Officer
SSB BART Group
jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
703.637.8957 (Office)

Visit us online: Website<http://www.ssbbartgroup.com/> | Twitter<https://twitter.com/SSBBARTGroup> | Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/ssbbartgroup> | Linkedin<https://www.linkedin.com/company/355266?trk=tyah> | Blog<http://www.ssbbartgroup.com/blog/>
Check out our Digital Accessibility Webinars!<http://www.ssbbartgroup.com/webinars/>

From: Bryan Garaventa [mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 2:04 AM
To: Tanaka, Satoko; WAI IG
Subject: RE: Question: Key Operation of Dropdown menu

Hi,
In looking at the code shown on that page, it looks like the only roles present are role=menubar and role=menu for the construct plus embedded links with no roles. I’m unable to locate a working example that shows this in action though both in IE11 and FF. Is this present on the page? I can’t tell if the required child roles are being added dynamically.

The containers with role=menubar or role=menu require focusable children with role=menuitem, or role=menuitemcheckbox, or role=menuitemradio. All ARIA Menu constructs require owned children with these roles.
E.G
http://whatsock.com/training/matrices/#menubar
and
http://whatsock.com/training/matrices/#menu

To visually see these roles in action, try using Visual ARIA at
                                http://whatsock.com/training/matrices/visual-aria.htm

When the bookmarklet is active and you are using the keyboard, any elements that receive focus that don’t include these roles will be shown in red font.

The following Menubar example shows how keyboard functionality is programmed according to spec, which also includes the requisite keyboard information for relevant nodes:
https://github.com/accdc/aria-menubar

                Within the global.css file, the classes are set up so that the required roles plus supporting attributes plus focusability is clearly conveyed as implemented.

Though ARIA 1.1 supports the use of aria-orientation to convey the horizontal or vertical layout of role=menubar or role=menu now, there is little to no support for conveying this to screen reader users at present, so the above example includes logic to accomplish this accessibly in the meantime.

All the best,
Bryan


Bryan Garaventa
Accessibility Fellow
SSB BART Group, Inc.
bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>
415.624.2709 (o)
www.SSBBartGroup.com<http://www.SSBBartGroup.com>

From: Tanaka, Satoko [mailto:sako-t@jp.fujitsu.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2016 7:29 PM
To: WAI IG <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>>
Subject: Question: Key Operation of Dropdown menu

Hi,

I would like to ask a question about implementation of dropdown menu created with WAI-ARIA.

https://wet-boew.github.io/v4.0-ci/demos/menu/menu-en.html
In this example, there are three types of dropdown menus at the top left corner. The labels are “Section 1”, “Section 2”, and “Section 3”. A breadcrumbs menu is placed just below of the dropdown menu.
When tabbing this example page, the focus is on the menu of “Section 1” first, and next, it moves to “Home” in the breadcrumbs rather than to “Section 2” which is next to “Section 1”.
To move to “Section 2” from “Section 1”, the right arrow key must be used, which means users can operate the dropdown menu with keyboard as long as following a specific key operation.

I’m wondering if this example is surely sufficient to WCAG 2.0. I think it might have to provide an instruction of how to operate the dropdown beforehand.

My question is:
Is this key operation sufficient to WCAG 2.0? (the point is this implementation does not depend on tab key operation)
In this case, is it necessary to describe how to operate the dropdown menu with keyboard in order to meet SC of WCAG 2.0?

I would highly appreciate, if someone kindly would give some good advice to me. Thanks in advance.


Many thanks and kind regards,
Satoko
Received on Tuesday, 26 July 2016 04:34:39 UTC

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