W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-ig@w3.org > January to March 2016

RE: Allowing font size changes

From: Phill Jenkins <pjenkins@us.ibm.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2016 11:21:26 -0600
To: Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
Cc: "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Message-ID: <OFF2B26E2D.30A00976-ON86257F3F.005EC507-86257F3F.005F5A26@us.ibm.com>
> . . . Simply offering the settings in the user agent and exposing them 
to the page 
> does not guarantee they will automagically make the page content work 
correctly.

agree wholeheartely, but with out the settings and support, how will the 
author (front end developer)
know how his page (or widget) will respond?  not IF but WHEN. 
My point is that we need the support before we finish making recommended 
techniques. 
We need some pioneer author/web developers to work with pioneer
browser and platform engoineers to get this right and understand the 
limitation and restrictions in order 
to make general recommendations that could become mandated. 
____________________________________________
Regards,
Phill Jenkins, 
IBM Accessibility




From:   Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
To:     Phill Jenkins/Austin/IBM@IBMUS, "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org" 
<w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Date:   01/19/2016 09:25 AM
Subject:        RE: Allowing font size changes



[Phil wrote] I agree it is a user agent responsibility *and* an end user 
responsibility to 
know how to set the setting or have an assistant set it for them.  It is a 
lot 
easier and more efficient to set it once per browser and/or per OS 
platform 
that to try to find the yet another unique way an individual website / 
developer did it. 
Using the excuse that some browser or platforms are hard to set & use does 
not justify 
leaving it up to millions of web developers to try to figure it out. 
 
We seem to agree on the following: 
  Pinch zoom and text resize without horizontal scroll are different
  Pinch zoom meets current WCAG conformance requirements if text resizes 
up to 200% without loss of functionality
  WCAG conformance can be met by providing text resize controls that 
enlarge all text up to 200% without loss of functionality (not generally 
recommend approach but sufficient)
  Text resize may be preferable for many users
  User agents and platforms should provide a method to enlarge text 
content
 
The challenge is that it may be difficult for authors to respond to a wide 
range of text size changes without creating horizontal scrolling.  Yes, 
responsive sites can be used but these may be based on breakpoints that 
may not exist smaller than the width of a mobile device.  If the user 
wants to resize text on a mobile device the author would need to plan for 
that even if the site is responsive.  What many sites do is keep the UI 
static but allow for text resize of the main content area ? yes, this is 
similar to the ?reader? mode some user agents and platforms offer.  My 
point though is that responding to larger text settings in the OS does 
require work by the author just as adding controls to resize text requires 
work by the author.  Simply offering the settings in the user agent and 
exposing them to the page does not guarantee they will automagically make 
the page content work correctly.
 
In addition, pinch zoom on a mobile device can be broken surprisingly 
easily.   For example, by use a floating fixed position bar at the top of 
the page.  When the page is zoomed the bar takes up most of the display 
leaving no room to view the page contents.   So authors need some 
flexibility in how they meet the SC. 
 
Jonathan
 
Jonathan Avila
Chief Accessibility Officer
SSB BART Group 
jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com
703.637.8957 (o) 
Follow us: Facebook | Twitter | LinkedIn | Blog | Newsletter
 
From: Phill Jenkins [mailto:pjenkins@us.ibm.com] 
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 5:35 PM
To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: Re: Allowing font size changes
 
> The OS and browser are each broken if they don't provide a way to 
increase 
> font size, and zoom - yes they are different. And both have important 
uses. 

I agree it is a user agent responsibility *and* an end user responsibility 
to 
know how to set the setting or have an assistant set it for them.  It is a 
lot 
easier and more efficient to set it once per browser and/or per OS 
platform 
that to try to find the yet another unique way an individual website / 
developer did it. 
Using the excuse that some browser or platforms are hard to set & use does 
not justify 
leaving it up to millions of web developers to try to figure it out.     

> I'm not sure there is any absolute requirement that authors add a 
> redundant shortcut to do the same, 

I agree, only to make sure their app doesn't break when zooming at 2X 
see WCAG 1.4.4 Resize Text 
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#visual-audio-contrast-scale 
 
> but in practice it can be a useful thing for many users, especially 
given that 
> in practice many OS and browser solutions are hard to find or use. 

I believe it is more useful and less confusing when the audience of the 
web app is known or controlled 
and has had some training or orientation, such as employees of a company 
with a particular app, 
or when the app is being designed specifically for a group of users who 
have the same or know disability, such as 
a rehabilitation app. 

The advocacy effort here needs to be directed at OS platform and browser 
developers and AT developers, not web developers. 
We are starting to get good traction with the iOS and Andorid app 
developers not that so many accessibility features 
are now included in the platform. 

Why can't we (meaning the web accessibility community) focus on the 
handful of platform and browser developers 
and stop wasting our time and the millions of web developers time on this 
topic? 
____________________________________________
Regards,
Phill Jenkins, 




From:        "Chaals McCathie Nevile" <chaals@yandex-team.ru> 
To:        w3c-wai-ig@w3.org 
Date:        01/18/2016 02:00 PM 
Subject:        Re: Allowing font size changes 




On Fri, 15 Jan 2016 15:46:19 +0100, Patrick H. Lauke 
<redux@splintered.co.uk> wrote:

> But as ever, it comes down to whose responsibility it is? Should it be 
> the content authors, or the device/OS/browser manufacturers?

The OS and browser are each broken if they don't provide a way to increase 
 
font size, and zoom - yes they are different. And both have important 
uses.

I'm not sure there is any absolute requirement that authors add a 
redundant shortcut to do the same, but in practice it can be a useful 
thing for many users, especially given that in practice many OS and 
browser soutions are hard to find or use.

IMHO.

chaals

> P
>
> On 15/01/2016 14:40, ALAN SMITH wrote:
>> Heather,
>>
>> I agree.
>>
>> Imaging having to set the volume on our devices in a settings somewhere
>> and constantly return to that setting after we find out it is not 
enough
>> or too much and not having the immediate feedback afforded by volume
>> buttons or onscreen controls.
>>
>> Same should be provided for fonts.
>>
>> After all, the text on the web page or app is the main mode of
>> communication or human computer interaction.
>>
>> It is why we use these devices anyway: to be able to read the text 
being
>> used.
>>
>> The world population that needs this is so big.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> Sent from Mail <http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows 10
>>
>>
>> *From: *Durham, Heather <mailto:heather.durham@pearson.com>
>> *Sent: *Friday, January 15, 2016 9:25 AM
>> *To: *howard_leicester@btconnect.com 
>> <mailto:howard_leicester@btconnect.com>
>> *Cc: *Patrick H. Lauke <mailto:redux@splintered.co.uk>;
>> w3c-wai-ig@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: Allowing font size changes
>>
>> What will be the plan for the app? Will it be widely used on mobile
>> devices? In mobile devices you can increase the font size, but it's not
>> as convenient as in a web page. On mobile devices you need to go to the
>> settings app and you can't see how the font size looks live as you
>> adjust it. For people who have difficulty navigating, it could be a 
real
>> convenience to tap a button to increase the font size right there in 
the
>> app their using.
>>
>> This could also be a nice feature for other uses, such as those with
>> autism. I attended an autism conference in the summer and this was
>> something that was widely discussed. The convenience of reducing the
>> number of steps to accomplish something.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Heather
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 3:22 PM, Howard Leicester
>> <howard_leicester@btconnect.com <mailto:howard_leicester@btconnect.com
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>     Hi P et al,
>>
>>     Do things really have to be so detailed and difficult?
>>
>>     May be there's some more fundamentally wrong in our approach?
>>
>>     No criticism, just a view!
>>
>>     VV best,
>>     Howard (Leicester, UK).
>>
>>
>>
>>     -----Original Message-----
>>     From: Patrick H. Lauke [mailto:redux@splintered.co.uk
>>     <mailto:redux@splintered.co.uk>]
>>     Sent: 14 January 2016 01:23
>>     To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
>>     Subject: Re: Allowing font size changes
>>
>>     On 14/01/2016 00:52, Oscar Cao wrote:
>>     > I want to get what everyone's views are on the importance of 
>> having
>>     > custom font size buttons for a website. You know those 3 icon 
>> buttons:
>>     > smaller, medium, and larger.
>>
>>     Very low from my point of view. It's functionality built into the
>>     browser already, so provided a site's CSS is made correctly, these
>>     in-page controls would be redundant.
>>
>>     There is an argument that users simply don't know that they can 
>> resize
>>     text/content using the browser controls - but this is more of a 
user
>>     education issue that should not have to be the responsibility of 
>> content
>>     authors. (same for in-page/custom controls to switch to high 
>> contrast
>>     mode or similar)
>>
>>     P
>>     --
>>     Patrick H. Lauke
>>
>>     www.splintered.co.uk <http://www.splintered.co.uk> |
>>     https://github.com/patrickhlauke
>>     http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
>>     twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Heather Durham
>>
>> Accessibility SQA, HEd
>>
>> Pearson North America
>>
>> 2154 East Commons Ave.
>>
>> Suite 4000
>>
>> Centennial, CO
>>
>> 80122
>>
>> USA
>>
>> *Pearson *
>>
>> Always Learning
>> Learn more at www.pearson.com <http://www.pearson.com/>
>>
>
>


-- 
Charles McCathie Nevile - web standards - CTO Office, Yandex
 chaals@yandex-team.ru - - - Find more at http://yandex.com
Received on Tuesday, 19 January 2016 17:22:14 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Friday, 29 January 2016 16:39:04 UTC