W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-ig@w3.org > July to September 2014

RE: Q: Change on Request 3.2.5? Is warning required for links that open new windows?

From: Aubrey, Richard <richard.aubrey@rbc.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:28:47 +0000
To: "'Paul J. Adam'" <paul.adam@deque.com>, 'Phill Jenkins' <pjenkins@us.ibm.com>
CC: "'w3c-wai-ig@w3.org Group'" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Message-ID: <39CD49DD6BE4C74CA403FD8FA0C530530118C854@SXGCM301.fg.rbc.com>
From my perspective, this warning comes in handy for users who are blind and are working in an application window. opening additional windows makes it confusing in navigation back to the application and difficult to know when you close the window (ALT F4) whether you are closing the application or just the additional window that has been opened.

Richard Aubrey | Manager, RBC IT Accessibility & National Co-Chair RBC REACH ERG for People With Disabilities, Enterprise Architecture Office (EAO) | Technology & Operations | RBC Royal Bank | 416-348-2926

From: Paul J. Adam [mailto:paul.adam@deque.com]
Sent: Monday, 21 July, 2014 5:04 PM
To: Phill Jenkins
Cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org Group
Subject: Re: Q: Change on Request 3.2.5? Is warning required for links that open new windows?

Thanks for the feedback Phill! Since this is AAA I've never actually worked with it because clients only request AA.

I think it should only be required for cases like modal dialogs where the browser or AT can't detect the target attribute.

Safari for OS X warns you in the status bar if the link is going to open a new tab. No other browsers I tested did this.

For Usability I think those link icons with alt should be required for new windows, file types, etc.

Paul J. Adam
Accessibility Evangelist

On Jul 17, 2014, at 11:59 AM, Phill Jenkins <pjenkins@us.ibm.com<mailto:pjenkins@us.ibm.com>> wrote:

Paul said: ". . . So reading that portion I don't see how it applies to links because the user is actively "requesting" (clicking on the link) and links do happen to open in new windows often for all users."

I believe the intent of 3.2.5 AAA is to inform the user whether clicking the link will open a new window or whether it will simply load a new page in the existing window.  In other words, how does the user predict what will happen when the link is clicked - whether a new window is opened or not.? new window = change of context.  We see these little icons next to links all the time indicating which ones open new windows, or change web sites, etc. helping the user predict how it will operate.    3.2.5 AAA has to be read in context with the whole 3.2 guideline and the other four success criteria in it.
Guideline 3.2 Predictable: Make Web pages appear and operate in predictable ways.
I would NOT recommend reading or trying to interpret each success criteria without considering the other success criteria in the guideline.

The other "context" needed for correctly interpreting the success criteria (in my opinion) is to consider the role of the user agent, assistive technology, and user settings.  Does the browser have a responsibility to warn the user by having a setting to allow it to warn the user that a new window (change of context) will happen?  If the user isn't using a browser capable (e.g. older version , etc.), or if the user hasn't set the setting due to lack of training, then the working group added some of these tripple A success criteria to compensate for lack of conformance of user agents with UAAG 2.0 and/or lack of training of users to use their assistive technology and/or potential conflicts as mentioned.
Phill Jenkins,
Senior Accessibility Engineer & Business Development Executive
IBM Research - Human Ability & Accessibility Center

From:        "Paul J. Adam" <paul.adam@deque.com<mailto:paul.adam@deque.com>>
To:        "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> Group" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>>,
Date:        07/17/2014 09:09 AM
Subject:        Q: Change on Request 3.2.5? Is warning required for links that open new windows?

Can I get some help interpreting WCAG AAA please? I still don't see where the normative requirements state that links which open new windows must have a warning to pass AAA.


Some pasted snippets<snip> out of the understanding document:

Change on Request:
Understanding SC 3.2.5
3.2.5 Change on Request: Changes of context are initiated only by user request or a mechanism is available to turn off such changes. (Level AAA)

This Success Criterion aims to eliminate potential confusion that may be caused by unexpected changes of context such as automatic launching of new windows

Note: Clicking on a link is an example of an action that is "initiated only by user request."

So reading that portion I don't see how it applies to links because the user is actively "requesting" (clicking on the link) and links do happen to open in new windows often for all users. I see this requirement as more for pop ups that jump out of nowhere with no action taken by the user or when a stupid news site forces a page reload to add new articles and the user's focus is lost.

However, it does mention in the techniques F22: Failure of Success Criterion 3.2.5 due to opening windows that are not requested by the user which reads:

Failure due to opening new windows when the user does not expect them. New windows take the focus away from what the user is reading or doing. This is fine when the user has interacted with a piece of User Interface and expects to get a new window, such as an options dialogue. The failure comes when pop-ups appear unexpectedly.

Failure Example 2:

A user clicks on a link, and a new window appears. The original link has no associated text saying that it will open a new window.

I only see this requirement specified in the techniques but then I see it says techniques are informative:

Techniques are informative-that means they are not required. The basis for determining conformance to WCAG 2.0 is the success criteria

So Techniques are not required but if you fail a Failure Technique that means you always fail, even though it's a technique, which is not required? I'm confused.


Paul J. Adam
Accessibility Evangelist

If you received this email in error, please advise the sender (by return email or otherwise) immediately. You have consented to receive the attached electronically at the above-noted email address; please retain a copy of this confirmation for future reference.  

Si vous recevez ce courriel par erreur, veuillez en aviser l'expéditeur immédiatement, par retour de courriel ou par un autre moyen. Vous avez accepté de recevoir le(s) document(s) ci-joint(s) par voie électronique à l'adresse courriel indiquée ci-dessus; veuillez conserver une copie de cette confirmation pour les fins de reference future.
Received on Tuesday, 22 July 2014 14:29:18 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Tuesday, 13 October 2015 16:21:52 UTC