Re: Seeking feedback on IAAP certification roadmap

I agree on all counts. It's a big challenge. Perhaps more importantly: I
think it will be worth it. I don't expect to be able to solve or address
all of the big challenges, especially not at first, but with some help from
groups like this one, I think we can get close.


Paul Bohman, PhD
Director of Training
Deque Systems, Inc
www.deque.com
703-225-0380, ext.121


On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 9:56 AM, David Best <davebest@cogeco.ca> wrote:

> I share Kelly's concern for the definition of accessibility solutions.
> There is the WCAG accessibility criteria, and then there is the usability.
> Many consultants, who are not AT users, tend to explain the criteria, but
> not is purpose and proper usage. Alt Text is one example of the need to
> understand the usability of a criteria. Another is Region Landmarks, that
> tend to be overly used and not understood. These are subjective and relate
> more to the design and branding of the website. As a user, what I prefer is
> not necessarily right or wrong, but preferred colour and text descriptions
> will vary widely. This means that IAAP certification must clearly define
> the definition of "accessibility", and yet leave room for creativity.
> Certification is more than technical rules/guidelines, and will need to be
> defined in terms of technical and nontechnical roles. Alt Text tends to be
> nondescriptive or too verbose, depending upon the user you ask, and some
> browsers do not use the Long Description; so the purpose must be
> understood, not just the technical rules. You have a big challenge before
> you, and will certainly take time to work out. Defining "accessibility" and
> "best practices" is going to require a lot of use case studies.
>
>
>
> David
>
>
>
> *From:* Paul Bohman [mailto:paul.bohman@deque.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, April 11, 2014 9:59 PM
> *To:* Kelly Ford
> *Cc:* W3C WAI ig
>
> *Subject:* Re: Seeking feedback on IAAP certification roadmap
>
>
>
> Kelly,
>
> It sounds like there is some room for improvement in a few instances of
> the IAAP alt text. Thank you for pointing them out. I'll pass them on so
> they can be improved.
>
> Your analysis of the alt text is sound, and you don't have to apologize
> for critically analyzing the accessibility of the web site of an
> organization about accessibility.
>
> Your point about alt text being subjective is true too. We haven't written
> the test yet, so I can't say exactly how alt text will be handled. Our goal
> is to make the certification exam challenging, but not with trick
> questions. We want the questions to reflect actual knowledge of best
> practices. If a question is too subjective, it won't be included in the
> exam. But there will likely be some questions asking test-takers to judge
> between good alt text and better alt text. That seems like a reasonable
> task. It's still too soon to talk about specific exam questions, since the
> exam doesn't exist yet, but we'll do our best to make the exam a valid
> assessment, without resorting to trick questions or questions with
> ambiguous answers.
>
>
>
> Paul Bohman, PhD
> Director of Training
> Deque Systems, Inc
> www.deque.com
> 703-225-0380, ext.121
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 9:32 PM, Kelly Ford <kelly@kellford.com> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
>
>
> I am asking this question here because I think it is an interesting
> question related to both the general topic of web accessibility and how
> certification is to be evaluated.  I recognize that alt-text is subjective
> to some degree but this is the second instance of alt text from an IAAP
> publication that I find lacking in completeness.  And I wonder how
> certification will handle this sort of situation or about other
> perspectives.
>
>
>
> Visiting http://www.accessibilityassociation.org/content.asp?contentid=163I find the following alt text for a picture on the page:
>
>
>
> “Pyramid depicting the expert, professional and associate levels of
> certification”
>
>
>
> I find the alt text lacking because it gives me no idea of how the pyramid
> is actually structured in terms of what’ builds on what.  And even from a
> writing perspective what I’m told is at the lowest level of the pyramid by
> someone who can see, namely associate, appears as the last item in the alt
> text.  Now the text explanation further on would appear to put things in
> the same order as they are depicted in the graphic.  That and my own
> judgment can likely tell me more about how the picture is structured but in
> my opinion I shouldn’t be required to do this level of analysis if I’m
> using alt text as my method of image perception.  And an equally valid
> argument might be made that just from a writing perspective expert is what
> should appear first.
>
>
>
> The first instance of alt text that could have been better,, again in my
> subjective opinion, happened in the first community update back in December
> 2013.  For reference purposes this can be found at:
>
>
> http://us7.campaign-archive1.com/?u=c9e95602d3d7209e71c920bfa&id=b3e4fe052c#IntroducingTheIAAPLogo
>
>
>
> There is a full article on the new IAAP logo.  But again from the alt text
> or even the article, I’d have little to no idea of what this logo is, what
> the six colors are and such.  Do I need to know this?  I’d contend yes in
> this case for a new logo being introduced yes.
>
>
>
> The current alt text related to this logo reads:
>
> "Photo of the IAAP logo" and "Photo of the six-color element that makes up
> the international IAAP logo”."
>
>
>
> Now I was curious what the logo looked like and what the colors were so
> did email a contact at the IAAP to ask about the logo.  This is the
> description I was provided.
>
>
>
> “The logo is simply the letters IAAP in the color blue against a white
> background.  How we show those letters is what we were trying to
> communicate.  The two A’s are connected by a curved line that creates the
> cross mark for the A’s.  This curved line connects the two letters together
> both showing our goal of providing a place for professionals to connect
> together and, because the curved line looks somewhat like a bridge,
> reflecting that this is a pathway towards something new.
>
>
>
> The six color element are just six thin blocks of color in a line.  The
> colors used are in this order – red, blue, yellow, purple, green and
> orange.  These colors represent the most common colors used within the
> flags of our international community.”
>
>
>
> I am in no way being critical of the IAAP here.  But I tend to be an
> examples sort of person when it comes to accessibility and am curious how
> again certification would judge a person’s ability to accurately create alt
> text from these examples if a certification test got to that level.
> Imagine for example that a certification question presented these same two
> situations and asked the person to write alt text and then justify the
> reasons behind why they chose what they did.  Obviously without knowing the
> intent behind the chosen alt text here I cannot accurately evaluate intent
> but from a results perspective, were I judging, I’d fail both of these
> cases of alt text or other method of image description.  In the pyramid
> case because the alt text does not convey enough about the image and
> perhaps because the text is out of order with the intent of the picture
>  and in the logo case because either the alt text or the article
> introducing the logo does not give someone who does not see the picture
> enough information for a new logo.
>
>
>
> Again I want to emphasize I am not being critical of the IAAP effort
> here.  In fact I think the industry needs something in this space because
> I, as I suspect do many others, invest an inordinate amount of time
> evaluating the accessibility claims of many because far too often reality
> doesn’t match stated ability.  I will also say that any opinions expressed
> here reflect my personal opinion and are in no way related to any
> professional employment or organizational membership of mine.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Kelly
>
>
>
> *From:* Paul Bohman [mailto:paul.bohman@deque.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, April 11, 2014 4:09 PM
> *To:* Tony Jasionowski
> *Cc:* David Hilbert Poehlman; Lastort Joanne L [Contractor]; Bob carroll;
> J. Albert Bowden; W3C WAI ig
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: Seeking feedback on IAAP certification roadmap
>
>
>
> Many people on this list are accessibility professionals, so the
> collective group of you are indeed one of the target audiences of the IAAP.
> In fact, the first certification category that will be developed is in the
> realm of digital accessibility, so right now you are the main target
> audience. If the IAAP branches out later (that's not a given), then it will
> be appropriate to engage with other similar professional groups in those
> areas.
>
>
>
> Paul Bohman, PhD
> Director of Training
> Deque Systems, Inc
> www.deque.com
> 703-225-0380, ext.121
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 6:46 PM, <Tony.Jasionowski@us.panasonic.com>
> wrote:
>
> Joanne,
> I agree with you that IAAP scope is beyond the scope of this list.
> Tony
>
>
> Tony Jasionowski
> Senior Group Manager Accessibility
> Panasonic Consumer Electronics Company
> Two Riverfront Plaza, 9th Floor
> Newark, NJ 07102
> Email: tony.jasionowski@us.panasonic.com
> Tel/Fax: 201-348-7777
>
>
>
>
>
> From:        David Hilbert Poehlman <poehlman1@comcast.net>
>
> To:        "Tony.Jasionowski@us.panasonic.com" <
> Tony.Jasionowski@us.panasonic.com>,
> Cc:        "Lastort Joanne L [Contractor]" <Joanne.L.Lastort@irs.gov>,
> Bob carroll <accessys@smart.net>, "J. Albert Bowden" <
> jalbertbowden@gmail.com>, Paul Bohman <paul.bohman@deque.com>, W3C WAI ig
> <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
> Date:        04/11/2014 02:26 PM
>
> Subject:        Re: Seeking feedback on IAAP certification roadmap
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> Perhaps then it is too broad to discuss on this list?
>
>
> --
> Jonnie Appleseed
> with his
> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
> touching the internet
> Reducing technologeyes' disabilities
> one byte at a time
>
> On Apr 11, 2014, at 14:13, Tony.Jasionowski@us.panasonic.com wrote:
>
> Joanne,
> WCAG only relates to web accessibility and not the many other aspects of
> accessibility, which I assume IAAP will address and/or certify. It seems
> the scope of IAAP is intended to be international and cover all aspects of
> accessibility, which is a real challenge.
> Tony
> <mime-attachment.jpg>
> Tony Jasionowski
> Senior Group Manager Accessibility
> Panasonic Consumer Electronics Company
> Two Riverfront Plaza, 9th Floor
> Newark, NJ 07102
> Email: tony.jasionowski@us.panasonic.com
> Tel/Fax: 201-348-7777
>
> <mime-attachment.gif>
>
>
>
>
> From:        "Lastort Joanne L [Contractor]" <Joanne.L.Lastort@irs.gov>
> To:        Paul Bohman <paul.bohman@deque.com>, "
> Tony.Jasionowski@us.panasonic.com" <Tony.Jasionowski@us.panasonic.com>,
> Cc:        Bob carroll <accessys@smart.net>, "J. Albert Bowden" <
> jalbertbowden@gmail.com>, W3C WAI ig <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
> Date:        04/10/2014 09:37 AM
> Subject:        RE: Seeking feedback on IAAP certification roadmap
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> Most countries are aligning themselves with WCAG 2.0 - even the US (at
> least partially). That should help, if you're going to use any kind of
> standard.
>
> Thank you for your help,
>
> Joanne Lastort
> IT Specialist
> 508 Program Office (IRAP)
> 240-613-4681 (new)
> TOD: 8am-4:30pm Eastern
> IRAP Web site: http://irap.web.irs.gov
> Please send all correspondence to *508 (508@irs.gov)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Bohman [mailto:paul.bohman@deque.com <paul.bohman@deque.com>]
> Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2014 9:32 AM
> To: Tony.Jasionowski@us.panasonic.com
> Cc: Bob carroll; J. Albert Bowden; W3C WAI ig
> Subject: Re: Seeking feedback on IAAP certification roadmap
>
> Tony,
>
> I agree that localization of laws is complex, but IAAP is international,
> so we can't focus only on US laws.
>
>
>
> Paul Bohman, PhD
> Director of Training
> Deque Systems, Inc
> www.deque.com
> 703-225-0380, ext.121
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 9:31 PM, <Tony.Jasionowski@us.panasonic.com> wrote:
>
>
>                Folks,
>                There is a wide variation between ADA, CVAA and other
> international accessibility laws, which may not be harmonized. I suggest
> IAAP should focus onto the U.S., since it may be too difficult to encompass
> international certification.
>                Tony
>
>                Tony Jasionowski
>                Senior Group Manager Accessibility
>                Panasonic Consumer Electronics Company
>                Two Riverfront Plaza, 9th Floor
>                Newark, NJ 07102
>                Email: tony.jasionowski@us.panasonic.com
>                Tel/Fax: 201-348-7777
>
>
>
>
>
>
>                From:        Paul Bohman <paul.bohman@deque.com>
>                To:        accessys@smart.net,
>                Cc:        "J. Albert Bowden" <jalbertbowden@gmail.com>,
> W3C WAI ig <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
>                Date:        04/08/2014 08:05 PM
>
>                Subject:        Re: Seeking feedback on IAAP certification
> roadmap
>
> ________________________________
>
>
>
>
>                IAAP certification is not specific to any law, such as the
> ADA. It is for accessibility professionals in a variety of accessibility
> disciplines. Similarly, the IAAP is an international organization, not just
> for American laws.
>
>                It's also important to separate the concept of courses from
> certification. The IAAP will offer a variety of educational resources and
> opportunities which can impart the kind of knowledge necessary to pass
> certification, but the certification itself is an assessment; a test. The
> idea behind certification is to show that the individual has met a certain
> level of expertise in the field, according to industry-accepted
> competencies.
>
>
>                Paul Bohman, PhD
>                Director of Training
>                Deque Systems, Inc
>                www.deque.com <http://www.deque.com/>
>                703-225-0380, ext.121 <tel:703-225-0380%2C%20ext.121<703-225-0380%2C%20ext.121>>
>
>
>
>                On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 7:55 PM, <accessys@smart.net <
> mailto:accessys@smart.net <accessys@smart.net>> > wrote:
>
>                when I took the DoJ training back in 1992 they made it very
> clear that there was going to be no accepted "Certification" for ADA, so
> wonder how this sits with the DoJ position or has it changed???
>
>                and how will it relate to DoJ training courses??
>
>                Bob
>
>                On Tue, 8 Apr 2014, J. Albert Bowden wrote:
>
>                Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 19:47:40 -0400
>                From: J. Albert Bowden <jalbertbowden@gmail.com <
> mailto:jalbertbowden@gmail.com <jalbertbowden@gmail.com>> >
>                To: Paul Bohman <paul.bohman@deque.com <
> mailto:paul.bohman@deque.com <paul.bohman@deque.com>> >
>                Cc: W3C WAI ig <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>>
> >
>                Subject: Re: Seeking feedback on IAAP certification roadmap
>                Resent-Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2014 23:48:09 +0000
>                Resent-From: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>>
>
>
>
>                does it cost money to get certified?
>
>
>
>                On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Paul Bohman <
> paul.bohman@deque.com <mailto:paul.bohman@deque.com<paul.bohman@deque.com>>
> > wrote:
>
>                Cross posted request for feedback:
>
>                The International Association of Accessibility
> Professionals (IAAP) needs
>                your feedback on our roadmap for accessibility
> certification. Here is the
>                roadmap as it stands now:
>
>
> http://www.accessibilityassociation.org/content.asp?contentid=163 <
> http://www.accessibilityassociation.org/content.asp?contentid=163>
>
>                We are still in the early stages of designing the
> certification, so your
>                feedback is most valuable now, before we commit to a
> certain path.
>
>                Here are some questions to consider as you read the roadmap:
>
>                   1. What do you think of the roadmap overall?
>                   2. What would you do to improve our roadmap?
>                   3. What do you think of the *levels* of certification
> outlined in the
>                   roadmap?
>                   4. Are there any broad *Knowledge Domains and Roles*
> that we have left
>
>                   off that should be included?
>                   5. Do you like our list of *Digital Accessibility* areas
> of
>
>                   certification? Should we add to or subtract from this
> list? (For example,
>                   one person commented that we should add gaming to the
> list.)
>                   6. Do you like the idea of certifying for these areas
> separately, in a
>                   modular approach as we have done? (See the section on
> *Referencing
>                   IAAP Credentials* for an explanation of how this might
> work)
>                   7. Do you like the 3 year period for certification?
> Would you make it
>
>                   shorter (2 years) or longer (5 years)?
>                   8. What kind of certification assessment would you
> create? Keep in
>
>                   mind that it has to be a valid and meaningful test of
> the right kind of
>                   competencies, it must be challenging enough that novices
> could not pass it
>                   without first studying or gaining experience,  it must
> be scalable (not too
>                   burdensome to administer or grade/score the assessment),
> and translatable
>                   into other languages.
>                   9. Once certification becomes available, do you think
> you would go
>
>                   through the process to become certified? Why or why not?
>                   10. What else should we consider as we move forward?
>
>
>                To give feedback, you can reply directly to this email, or
> you can send an
>                email to the certification committee:
> CC@accessibilityassociation.org <mailto:CC@accessibilityassociation.org<CC@accessibilityassociation.org>>
>
>
>                Paul Bohman, PhD
>                Chair, IAAP Certification Committee
>                Director of Training
>                Deque Systems, Inc
>                www.deque.com <http://www.deque.com/>
>                703-225-0380, ext.121 <tel:703-225-0380%2C%20ext.121<703-225-0380%2C%20ext.121>>
>
>
>
>
>
>                --
>                J. Albert Bowden II
>
>                jalbertbowden@gmail.com <mailto:jalbertbowden@gmail.com<jalbertbowden@gmail.com>>
>
>
>                http://bowdenweb.com/ <http://bowdenweb.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <Jasionowski_Tony.vcf>
>
>
>
>
>