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Re: Slides of my WAI-ARIA presentation at SpainJS event

From: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 12:45:52 -0700
Message-ID: <A1B370E5CCA0459AB79088AD38B27E1C@WAMPAS>
To: Emmanuelle Gutiérrez y Restrepo <coordina@sidar.org>, "Chaals McCathieNevile" <w3b@chaals.com>
Cc: "Steve Faulkner" <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>, "WAI Interest Group" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>, Ramón Corominas <listas@ramoncorominas.com>
This was when I was building my footnotes demo at
http://whatsock.com/modules/aria_footnote_generator_module/demo.htm

It's been about 9 months or so since then, but I believe it happened in IE 
and FF.

I'm not sure this is a browser bug though, since non-actionable elements 
like spans and divs aren't supposed to handle key press events in addition 
to clicks.

Here's a question I'd be curious to know the answer of, when you put ARIA 
tags on an element, is it expected to change the nature of the element even 
when there is no Assistive Technology running?

I wouldn't think so, since the DOM structure remains the same, just with 
additional attributes. A span tag is still a span tag regardless.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chaals McCathieNevile" <w3b@chaals.com>
To: "Bryan Garaventa" <bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com>; "Emmanuelle Gutiérrez 
y Restrepo" <coordina@sidar.org>
Cc: "Steve Faulkner" <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>; "WAI Interest Group" 
<w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>; "Ramón Corominas" <listas@ramoncorominas.com>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: Slides of my WAI-ARIA presentation at SpainJS event


On Mon, 09 Jul 2012 16:31:03 +0200, Emmanuelle Gutiérrez y Restrepo
<coordina@sidar.org> wrote:

> Good point Bryan,
>
>> "Proper scripting is always necessary toensure functionality for users 
>> that cannot benefit from ARIA."

> It is important to note that, for all developers.

Indeed.

> 2012/7/9 Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com>
>> Actually I ran across this not too long ago, where I had a Span tag  with 
>> tabindex=0 and role=link, and tried using just a click event to  handle 
>> the keypress.
>>
>> This worked fine for screen reader users, but failed completely for 
>> keyboard only users not using a screenreader.

On what browser(s)? Did you file bugs, or do you know of them for the
relevant browsers? Maybe you could add them to the a11ybugs list of things
to annoy browser makers about...

>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>  From: Steve Faulkner

>>>> I think pretty much all browsers allow
>>>>  activating click events with the keyboard, and will add things if  you 
>>>> give them a tabindex. So adding specific keyboard >handling is 
>>>> probably redundant if you're just using click (mouseover, focus, and 
>>>> various other things are still not so good).
>>>
>>> I think you are right, but need to take into account keyboard  behaviour 
>>> for things like buttons, which require activation on space  key press as 
>>> well as enter key

Why? The specific mechanism for activation should be able to vary between
browsers*. Authors trying to guess which keys I have available on whatever
device is in front of me cause massive problems in general. It is true
that not all users know how to use their browser, but actively making it
not work isn't a very good solution and should only be done as a last
resort.

*for usability the basics should be the same where possible - e.g. Opera
should fix the fact that they use the tab key for form-only navigation and
ctrl-arrows for "tabbing" through all active things, because although
their overall keyboard navigation implementation was light years more
advanced than anyone else, when there is a convention as strong as the tab
key it is unhelpful not to follow it)

cheers

Chaals

>>> see 
>>> http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2011/04/html5-accessibility-chops-just-use-a-button/ 
>>> for more details.
>>>
>>> regards
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>  On 9 July 2012 11:47, Chaals McCathieNevile <w3b@chaals.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>   On Sun, 08 Jul 2012 22:29:30 +0200, Ramón Corominas 
>>>> <listas@ramoncorominas.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all, and apologies for cross-posting.
>>>>>
>>>>> Last     Saturday I gave a presentation in the SpainJS event about 
>>>>> creating     accessible apps using WAI-ARIA. The idea was to show JS 
>>>>> developers that     accessibility is an essential component to 
>>>>> achieve quality coding, and the     potential of ARIA to create more 
>>>>> accessible apps.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've uploaded the     slides here:
>>>>> http://ramoncorominas.com/spainjs/
>>>>
>>>> Nice   :)
>>>>
>>>>> Comments, suggestions or corrections are welcome     (smile)
>>>>
>>>> I think pretty much all browsers allow   activating click events with 
>>>> the keyboard, and will add things if you give   them a tabindex. So 
>>>> adding specific keyboard handling is probably redundant   if you're 
>>>> just using click (mouseover, focus, and various other things are still 
>>>> not so good).
>>>>
>>>> I'd be interested in learning if that is not the   case...
>>>>
>>>> cheers
>>>>
>>>> Chaals
>>>>
>>>> --Chaals - standards   declaimer
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- with regards
>>>
>>> Steve Faulkner
>>> Technical Director - TPG
>>>
>>> www.paciellogroup.com | www.HTML5accessibility.com | 
>>> www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner
>>> HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives - 
>>> dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/
>>> Web Accessibility Toolbar - 
>>> www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
>>>
>>
>
>



-- 
Chaals - standards declaimer
Received on Monday, 9 July 2012 19:46:32 UTC

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