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Re: approval

From: Marc Haunschild <mh@zadi.de>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 07:11:21 +0100
Message-ID: <4F45D889.2080406@zadi.de>
To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Hi Carla,

is this list public?

Marc

Am 22.02.2012 15:12, schrieb Carla De Winter:
>
> Maybe set up a list of personas?
>
> We arelistingright now which are the most importantcriteria for 
> impaired vision.
>
> May I remark that visual processing is also partof this, some people 
> have a perfect sight but still use the same techniques.I have been one 
> of them.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Carla De Winter
>
> AccessCapable
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: Jim Tobias [mailto:tobias@inclusive.com]
> Verzonden: woensdag 22 februari 2012 15:01
> Aan: 'Cain, Sally'; 'G F Mueden'; 'Marc Haunschild'; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> Onderwerp: RE: approval
>
> Thanks Sally and all.
>
> I think we would agree that there are gradations of vision loss across
>
> several dimensions. More to the point, there's a continuum of 
> accommodations
>
> and techniques that people use for reading, from "only screen
>
> magnification/contrast" to "only screen reading", with at least some 
> people
>
> using both at the same time. And of course the settings for these 2
>
> modalities also vary, both by person and by situation, such as the 
> specific
>
> task they are performing at the moment, their expectations of comfort,
>
> productivity, accuracy, etc.
>
> To me, one big problem we face is that we don't know how many people 
> are in
>
> each slot along these continua. How do we justify this or that
>
> recommendation if we don't know how many people it will benefit, or 
> how many
>
> people would be left behind?
>
> (Of course, there's an even bigger problem lurking behind this one 
> that pops
>
> out whenever we think about numbers: why are so many people using nothing?
>
> There's no evidence than more than a tiny fraction of potential users with
>
> disabilities are taking advantage of the mainstream and AT accessibility
>
> features and products out there.)
>
> ***
>
> Jim Tobias
>
> Inclusive Technologies
>
> +1.908.907.2387 v/sms
>
> skype jimtobias
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: Cain, Sally [mailto:sally.cain@rnib.org.uk]
>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 8:24 AM
>
> > To: G F Mueden; Marc Haunschild; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
>
> > Subject: RE: approval
>
> >
>
> > Dear George,
>
> >
>
> > I would just like to comment on your statement "all the blind are
>
> > equally blind". I think it is important to note that this is not the
>
> > case. Someone who considers themselves blind may have light perception.
>
> > They may also have a tiny amount of vision, even if it may not be very
>
> > useful. I think it is important to recognise that every single persons
>
> > vision is different, even those people who have the same eye condition,
>
> > so we can make no assumptions about what someone can or cannot see.
>
> >
>
> > I hope this is helpful.
>
> >
>
> > Thanks
>
> > Sally
>
> > Digital Accessibility Development Officer
>
> > Royal National Institute for Blind People (RNIB)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: G F Mueden [mailto:gfmueden@verizon.net]
>
> > Sent: 22 February 2012 12:56
>
> > To: Marc Haunschild; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
>
> > Subject: Re: approval
>
> >
>
> > Marc, please amend your category list  to point out the vast difference
>
> > between those who don't see and those who don't see well; their needs
>
> > are
>
> > quite different and what helps one group is often of no help to the
>
> > other.
>
> > Further, while all the blind are equally blind, there is variety in the
>
> > needs of those who still read with their eyes but not well.
>
> > Typically they suffer from (1) poor acuity (sharpness of focus) and (2)
>
> > poor
>
> > contrast sensitivity (ability to distinguish between shades of colors or
>
> >
>
> > grays).  A third difficulty is small field size, not so prevalent but
>
> > important.
>
> >
>
> > The fix for #! is generally only half known.  Everybody knows about
>
> > magnification.  The other part is the need for word wrap to keep copy on
>
> > the
>
> > screen.   Without it every line must be chased to its end, scrolling
>
> > right
>
> > and then left for the start of the next line.
>
> > The fix for #2 is not magnification (often suggested), but is choice of
>
> > font
>
> > for incoming text.  Poor contrast sensitivity calls for thicker strokes
>
> > in
>
> > the lines that make the characters, so the use of bold fonts is the fix.
>
> >
>
> > User's software can provide them, but formatting can prevent their use.
>
> > Magnification help only a little.  A bigger faint character is still
>
> > faint.
>
> >
>
> > Enough.  To learn more, "Accessibility for Eye Readers". 12k and
>
> > growing, is
>
> > available as an email attachment from gfmueden@verizon.net
>
> > Commentts welcome.
>
> >
>
> > George   ===gm===
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > .
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
>
> > From: "Marc Haunschild" <mh@zadi.de>
>
> > To: <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 1:06 AM
>
> > Subject: Re: approval
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > | Hi Meliha,
>
> > |
>
> > | Simple question, simple answer. There are four categories of problems,
>
> > | people might have using a website
>
> > |
>
> > | vision
>
> > | hearing
>
> > | movement
>
> > | cognition
>
> > |
>
> > | can be less than average or (partially) non-existent (like the ability
>
> > | to see colors or to see with just one eye).
>
> > |
>
> > | Some things, which can be a challenge in real life, do not influence
>
> > the
>
> > | usage of a website a lot: like sitting in a wheel chair.
>
> > |
>
> > | I think this is clear. So just try to understand what needs have
>
> > people
>
> > | which cannot see. Can they use your site? How? It is quite easy to
>
> > | support them: they use screenreaders, programs that read your content.
>
> > | You have to provide ALL the content as text (also what is on your
>
> > | pictures). Now disable your css and look at your pages: everything
>
> > | should be linearly ordered in just one dimension: from top to bottom.
>
> > | Make sure, that the content is provided in the correct order: does it
>
> > | still make sense? Or do you use phrases like:  on the left you see...
>
> > -
>
> > | which is nonsense now, because there is no left or right ;-)
>
> > |
>
> > | Try this with other disabilties. What is a problem for people that
>
> > | cannot move very good: if they cannot put there arms way up in the
>
> > air,
>
> > | its propably no problem to use a mouse and keyboard, but if they have
>
> > a
>
> > | tremor, its very difficult for them to klick on tiny buttons and
>
> > icons.
>
> > |
>
> > | With this approach you can find out a lot about your own site. If you
>
> > | like exoeriments: Just try to use your page with your feet instead of
>
> > | hands, wear glasses for watching 3d-movies (these with green and red
>
> > | "glass")
>
> > |
>
> > | And further just use your imagination.
>
> > |
>
> > | One thing which is difficult to understand: people whonever were able
>
> > to
>
> > | hear, normally do not speak even the language of there own country.
>
> > They
>
> > | use gestures for communication. So they cannot read your texts - at
>
> > | least only with big difficulties. So try to keep your sentences short,
>
> > | remain essentially, just write, like everybody should write anyway:
>
> > | there are a lot of descriptions/tutorials out there in the web, How to
>
> > | write texts.
>
> > |
>
> > | You will see - all of this improvements will help everybody to use
>
> > your
>
> > | site - like already saif here: accessibility ist usability for
>
> > everybody.
>
> > |
>
> > | Good luck with your site!
>
> > |
>
> > | Am 20.02.2012 10:59, schrieb Meliha Yenilmez:
>
> > | > Hi Everone,
>
> > | >
>
> > | > I have two questions.
>
> > | >
>
> > | > First one, I want to learn our web site is accessible or not? How
>
> > can
>
> > | > our web site approval for accessbile or no?
>
> > | >
>
> > | > And second one, if our web page/pages is accessible,  who can give
>
> > | > conformance logo/s?
>
> > | >
>
> > | > Thanks for all,
>
> > | >
>
> > | > *Meliha Yenilmez*
>
> > |
>
> > | Marc
>
> > |
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >  To report this e-mail as Spam, please forward it to:
>
> > spam@mailcontrol.com
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --
>
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>
> > money providers that are giving blind and partially sighted people great
>
> > customer service. We're also launching our new 'Guide to getting great
>
> > service'. Find out more at www.rnib.org.uk/servicematters
>
> > --
>
> >
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-- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

i. A. Marc Haunschild
Zugängliche Anwendungsentwicklung und Qualitätskontrolle
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Received on Thursday, 23 February 2012 06:12:11 GMT

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